Agreed, GOP wont last more than two years, cause they will not vote to cut defense spending, which is trillions over the next few years, they will not try to change Med. part D, which is 2 trillion over next ten years, they will not vote to stop bush tax cuts, which would be 1.25 trillion over next five years, they will not try to defund afghan war, or remaining Iraq presence, which total will be another 1 trillion, they will do nothing to stop earmarks, because earmarks are how they get re-elected. If they were able to eliminate the Dept. of Edu, it would save us a half-trillion over the next ten years, and our kids would all be even dumber. What I dont understand is, why dont people think paying taxes is patriotic? You want Dept. of homeland security? then be willing to pay for it, you want to invade Iraq? then dont put it on the Redchina mastercard with interest, PAY FOR IT NOW!!!!! You want 2.5 trillion in tax cuts, cut defense spending. The only real dent in the deficit would be a dent in defense. And by the way, dont cry social security, because even ron paul dont want to get rid of SS, because if he said he did, he would lose his job!! I hate when they waste our money, and I hate when they raise taxes, but I am all for bang for the buck, thats why it makes me mad when older people say, extend the bush tax cuts, AND KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY SS AND MEDICARE!!! You dont have a right to be a tea partier and this financially ignorant, but i guess in America you do get a voice, no matter how illogical it is! At least healthcare bill REALLY IS DEFICIT NEUTRAL, NO MATTER WHAT ANYBODY SAYS. It might not work as good as it needs to, but it doesnt to the debt.

 

 

Absolutely congress has the ability to regulate interstate commerce. What Congress does not have the ability to do is require anybody in the US to purchase anything. That is what this law does. It requires us to purchase health insurance or be fined. That is the part that should be ruled to be unconstitutional. If the law assessed taxes to provide health insurance to everyone then it would be constitutional, but it doesn't. It imposes fines for not spending private money at private businesses.

 

You have to work to live, and in most parts of the country, you have to drive to get to work. By law, you have to purchase car insurance to drive, all under the guise of constitutionality, and to the benefit of insurance companies. I agree that congress shouldn't be able to force you to purchase something, but they do and they will.

By the way, this is awesome, people talking, disagreeing, agreeing, with mostly intelligent things to say. Feel free to agree or disagree!!!

 

Ever heard of the health care bill? If that isnt something that was "rammed" through then I dont know what to say.

 

In the context of the argument, "rammed" or "slipped" through means doing it while people aren't paying attention. The health care bill, which I half-heartedly support, was debated in both houses for months, negotiated for months, and earned the support of a handful of senate Republicans by including Rep. ideas, which include forcing everyone to buy it, which was an idea the house reps. came up with in the early 1990s, which led to its defeat in the 1990s and led to it getting passed in 09. this thread started because of a suggestion that congress could "ram" through a 1% banking tax, without anyone noticing until after it happened. The health care bill was noticed, and by no means was it "rammed" though, seeing as how it was one of the longest debated bills EVER.
My personal argument wasnt about supporting anything one way or the other, but merely to state the way both parties can and cannot do things. Clearly, a 1% banking tax would never be law without members of both parties voting for it, and my point was that in an election year, this will not happen.

However, disregard the whole fillibuster thing, as 1depd pointed out, I was totally wrong/mistaken there.

 

The difference is driving on the public roads is a privilege and living is a right. We will be forced to buy health insurance because we are alive. We can opt to not purchase auto insurance by living close enough to work to ride a bicycle, ride a horse, or walk. We can chose to carpool with a co-worker or friend, or take a taxi or bus. We can even start a business from home and not have to leave our house for anything. Granted life would be extremely inconvenient if we couldn't drive an auto, but it is not a right. It's a choice.

As long as we choose to change O2 into CO2 we have no option. We have to purchase health insurance. If we attempt to force ourselves to stop converting O2 we get hauled off to the psych ward for evaluation. In some jurisdictions it is still illegal to commit or attempt to commit suicide.

 

Nice legs!!! Stupid Canadians.

 

The God-fearing retard is calling me stupid, lol!

 

You got that right.....

 

My understanding is that failing to buy insurance under the plan results in a 700-1200 tax penalty, zero if you are unemployed, and if you are less then median income(36-37k/yr. taxable) you get up to a 3500 dollar credit to use to get insurance, and businesses with more than fifty employess get fined for not offering it, and small businesses with less than fifty employess get zero fine for not offering, and their (small biz) employees also get a credit, regardless of income, to use to buy insurance on a cross-state exchange program. Refusal to purchase insurance results in forfeiture of the 3500 dollar credit, and the credit is funded completely by companies that have more than fifty employees and choose to pay their fine instead of offering health insurance. So, its not that communisticly cut and dry, hence my half-hearted support. No one will go to jail for refusing to buy health insurance, but people go to jail every day for not having car insurance(unpaid tickets), even in the most conservative states.

Not exactly a beacon of democracy at its finest, but thats what it took to get some Rep. support. I am hoping to the ability to cross state lines, just like with car insurance, will lead to competition enough to keep costs down, much how it keeps car insurance companies from raping us like health insurance companies do now.

 

I think the only reasons the ex-militia people (um I mean Teabaggies) support Palin is because she sports that kind of over the hill beauty queen image!

If she looked like Janet Reno, she wouldn't get a second's of attention!

 

I agree.

Brains and beauty = Conservative

Dumb and butch = Liberal

 

You crack me up K-mac. There is a huge difference between "regulating commerce" and forcing people to buy insurance.

But, as always, you will fail to see the difference.

 

Another tax. Good grief, we may owe the Queen of England an apology. Our taxes are no less than hers, and if we don't have your own lobbyist then we're not realizing much representation either.