I think it's a two way street.

It's really dumb for some slimy *** sales goon to tell a potential buyer their trade is only worth 1/3 of what it really is, that the price of XYZ vehicle is firm and not open for negotiation, that 7% for 60 months is the best they/we can do, to overall act like the customer should be privileged to be breathing the same air as the salesman and his general manager.

The customers are the sole reason why that sales department is allowed to stay open. The dealer shouldn't forget this. If you (you, being the slick haired, cheap tie wearing, over cologne'd salesman) waste their time, guess what? Chances are they ain't gonna buy anything from you, and they're gonna tell all their friends what a hack and a ripoff you are. Times are hard in the automotive business; every customer - within reason - should be treated like gold. We/they can't afford to lose anyone.

On the same token, it's really dumb for Joe Schmoe customer to walk in off the street with a 540 beacon score wanting a $40,000 truck for invoice minus rebates minus $3K for 72 months at 0% or something silly like that, who wants Blue Book excellent value for their trade despite having like $30K in negative equity in it or driving something where the gas in the tank exceeds the actual value of the car. The customer knows full and damn well this is a waste of time, and when it comes to a commissioned salesman, time = money.

The sales guys have to make a living, and they do not have to sell you something at some stupid ridiculous price just because you think that's fair. So when you (you, being the bad credit, stupid amounts of negative equity crackhead who thinks you should get a new vehicle for less than what the dealer paid for it on terms agreeable to you) waste the salesman's time, you're taking money directly out of his pocket, and out of the dealership's pocket, when they could be directing their time and effort to a customer in good standing, who's ready and capable of buying a vehicle.

So, in summation - there's dumbasses on both sides of the fence. And it ruins things for the good folks in between.

 

The diagnostic system Ford makes dealers buy is about $14,000. Its predecessor was about $20,000. And its predecessor was about $32,000.

The cables the latest diagnostic rig uses are something like $200/ea, and they're about made of glass. The break and fail if you look at them the wrong way. We went through six in a little over a year, and the guys that use them the most take real good care of 'em. That's $1200 just in cables.

It costs the dealers about $600/unit per year to keep them updated.

They have technicians who have hundreds (if not thousands) of hours of formal training away from the dealership. Individual technicians, good ones, have tens of thousands of dollars of tools and equipment to service and repair your truck (last time I did an inventory, I've got a little over $50,000 invested myself).

In addition, the dealer has to buy their parts from Ford/Motorcraft, which sometimes ain't fair; there are some parts Ford/Motorcraft sell to Autozone, O'Reilly's, Advance, Walmart, etc. for less than they sell them to their dealers. The parts situation gets even more convoluted (and expensive) if the parts department has to return something expensive they ordered for a customer, and the customer didn't return to get the parts installed.

There's utilities to pay in that service department that ain't paid by Ford. Electricity (compressors and electric lifts take a lot of juice to run), water, heating/air, security, etc, money for advertising, money for internal stuff (when we break something, the service department has to eat it, that costs money), licenses for service information software (Alldata, Mitchell, Shopkey, whatever), licenses for dealer management software (ADP, Reynolds & Reynolds, etc), uniforms, random shop supplies, it all adds up.

$120/hour is cheap, all things being equal considering the investment made by the dealers and the massive overhead of running a service department. Besides, your local market seems to bare it, since if $120/hr really was highway robbery, no one would come along to pay it and eventually the dealer would have to lower that price to get business in the door.

 

I'd be willing to make a bet that the people who bitch about a "stealership's" pricing for sales and service the loudest are also the people who bitch the loudest when THEIR paycheck is threatened for whatever reason.......

EXACTLY! Thank you very much!

 

The only times Ive dealt with a Ford dealer regarding my truck was once for parts (rubber stops on doors) and a recall (vacuum hose) and I didnt have any problems. I used the same dealer because theyre 5 minutes away.

I bought my truck used at a small independent dealership and the only issue I had was that the tires just couldnt be balanced without vibrating. Apparently they bought factory seconds from the bargain basement. I got a hell of a deal on the truck because a friend of mine is friends with the owner so I definately couldnt complain too much. A new set of tires fixed that issue.

For service I do some things myself like oil changes and brakes (going to need front pads soon) and other things I take to a friend thats a mechanic and does work on the side. He just replaced the rear pinion seal and changed the differential fluid on my truck for $45 (plus me buying parts and fluids). He also did a complete motor swap and a ton of other work on my Mustang.

I try to avoid the dealership as much as possible because its not worth paying their labor rate.


Ive had some bad experiences with a Dodge dealership that has since gone out of business around here. My parents had a Caravan and I took it in for rear brakes and they kept trying to sell me a ton of work it didnt need like a power steering flush, fuel system cleaning, etc. I told them to just put the brakes on it.
The next time my father took it there he fell for their line of BS and ended up paying $1500 for stuff a few year old van with about 30k didnt need.

That dealer was really shady in my opinion and Ive heard similar stories from other people.

 

I agree Quintin. We need to respect the fact the dealers need to make money. Respect is a mutual thing.

On a side note, why do we always need salespersons? I ususally know exaclty what I'm looking for before I step foot on a dealer lot. I hate getting assigned to a salesperson who has no clue. I know I'll end up dealing with the Manager anyway, so why can't I just pick out my vehicle, drive it and do my deal with no interferance?

 

That's what the Internet sales manager is for these days - do your legwork sitting at home first.

 

I do. They still assign you to a salesperson. This is the point of my previous post.

 

I guess when you work in the industry it is easy to justify how you run your business and what you charge your customers but for those of us on the outside looking in that have no choice but to use your service it is a different story. We would prefer you didn't have your arm up our *** to the elbow while telling us you have a lot of overhead to cover because clearly yours is the only industry that has a lot of overhead.

I have never been against anyone making money. I want you to make money. I don't understand why it is OK to charge two hours labour when something takes a half hour. I don't understand why you can charge thousands extra in fees when you sell a car. I suppose I am stuck in the past when the price was the price and you expected a certain level of honest service.

 

See, that's the wonderful thing. The market is self correcting like that.

No one is forcing you to go someplace where you gotta pay "X" dollars for "Y" work. There are lots of other dealers out there that charge varying prices; if you feel the price you paid is unfair, by all means, shop elsewhere, that's your right.

If the price really was out of order, then more and more people would start shopping elsewhere, and the dealer would have to compensate for this loss of business by lowering their hourly rate until business picked back up.

Ain't the free market fun?

Yeah, $120/hour is a lot of money. But it ain't really my place (or yours, or anyone else's) to tell a private business what to charge for their services; well, it is, but I'll tell them by taking my business elsewhere, not by bitching that they charge too much.