Senior Member
Quote:
Well alright then. To me, it's most important to get heat for someone who has been possibly several hours without it. I'm not going to wait for tech support to get a hold of their engineer so that they can tell me the value to measure in a simple roll out switch. There are just too many boiler manufacturers to train on all of them to be an authorized tech for each one. Someone who installs and maintains residential and light commercial boilers should have an understanding of the sequence of opporations and should be able to determine a fault without the aid of an engineer.Originally Posted by JJDH
No. I do hvac for a living and boilers. The parts get tested, not bypassed.
The boiler that we're talking about here is hardly high tech. It shouldn't require talking to a Weil-McLain engineer to figure this one out.
That's just me though. I don't do VAC for a living.
Technical Article Contributor
Quote:
The boiler that we're talking about here is hardly high tech. It shouldn't require talking to a Weil-McLain engineer to figure this one out.
That's just me though. I don't do VAC for a living.
Ok. That is why you call a professional to service the unit. Call your local hvac company. The weil mclain people generally wont tell you too much or at least shouldnt if you arent a licensed contractor.Originally Posted by wittom
Well alright then. To me, it's most important to get heat for someone who has been possibly several hours without it. I'm not going to wait for tech support to get a hold of their engineer so that they can tell me the value to measure in a simple roll out switch. There are just too many boiler manufacturers to train on all of them to be an authorized tech for each one. Someone who installs and maintains residential and light commercial boilers should have an understanding of the sequence of opporations and should be able to determine a fault without the aid of an engineer.The boiler that we're talking about here is hardly high tech. It shouldn't require talking to a Weil-McLain engineer to figure this one out.
That's just me though. I don't do VAC for a living.
Here is some advice... Free at that. pull the inducer see if its sooted up behind there. That is where i would start.
Give em some electric heaters, call the hvac guy, what are the co, o2, flue c02 readings, whats the voltage, any impingement?.... there are things that need checked that arent DIY.......
Senior Member
mjb1032, I didn't mean to divert your thread. Hope that you've got your situation figured out.
I'm really not trying to argue with you here but the OP sounded like he might be able to figure out the problem him self. He sounds like he has a basic understanding of how his system works. He's not dealing with some ultra high efficency, condensating, modulating, direct vent boiler with an outdoor reset, serving a multi-zone radiant/DHW combination system.
You've got a bunch of people in this board who have done some pretty serious mods to thier F150's. You've got to give people here a little credit. The OP's boiler isn't anything compared to doing rear gears, swapping heads or installing a roots type supercharger.
It's not good to oversimplify, but it doesn't need to be that complicated either. That's all I'm saying.
Quote:
How much are you, the professional, going to charge me? You are going to pull the inducer, on a natural gas boiler, looking for soot? If combustion was poor enough to cause soot, my gas bill would have been way too high previously. My basic power vented hydronic boiler is short cycling. Why are you going to check things that wouldn't directly contribute to the problem. I can see checking co and co2 if you are adjusting fuel/air and/or optimizing efficeincy, but my boiler is short cycling and I just need it to work properly.Originally Posted by JJDH
Ok. That is why you call a professional to service the unit.
I'm really not trying to argue with you here but the OP sounded like he might be able to figure out the problem him self. He sounds like he has a basic understanding of how his system works. He's not dealing with some ultra high efficency, condensating, modulating, direct vent boiler with an outdoor reset, serving a multi-zone radiant/DHW combination system.
You've got a bunch of people in this board who have done some pretty serious mods to thier F150's. You've got to give people here a little credit. The OP's boiler isn't anything compared to doing rear gears, swapping heads or installing a roots type supercharger.
It's not good to oversimplify, but it doesn't need to be that complicated either. That's all I'm saying.
Senior Member
Quote:
I know it might seem redundant, but using some scratch cloth on the flame sensor has been all that we've had to do on a lot of water heaters that have a similar set up.
I guess you folks out there in the eastern part of the state are going to get more snow than we are here. They are telling us 5" to 10". It's kind of funny how they are calling it a "big" storm. We've hardly got any snow this year.
Klitch, what kind of input BTU does that monster have? Is that a 2" gas line going into the thing? What's it for?
fyi- use fine steel wool on the fsr- not sand cloth or sand paperOriginally Posted by wittom
That's what I would do. Bypass anything that you can to eliminate it as a possible cause. I don't recall ever having to replace a roll out or spill switch. I know it might seem redundant, but using some scratch cloth on the flame sensor has been all that we've had to do on a lot of water heaters that have a similar set up.
I guess you folks out there in the eastern part of the state are going to get more snow than we are here. They are telling us 5" to 10". It's kind of funny how they are calling it a "big" storm. We've hardly got any snow this year.
Klitch, what kind of input BTU does that monster have? Is that a 2" gas line going into the thing? What's it for?
Senior Member
where pressure switch has tubing over barb, make sure this is completely free of obstruction , aka with very small paper clip.
OK People!!,
Calm down! First off....as a master electrician for 24 years I've done my share of trouble-shooting boilers and furnaces.
I thought a gas-tech here could save me some time, that's all.
And I'm very capable when it comes to getting things done.
(Currently doing a complete strip-down restoration of a 1968 Mustang, but let's get back to the topic)
I know not to by-pass any safety devices except for troubleshooting.
Last night, I by-passed the pressure switch when the unit was running, by feeding 24V to the gas-valve control module from the relay coil.
I then tested for voltage on the normal feed to the control module,
and sure enough, after 10 seconds the voltage dropped from 24 to 2.
The problem is in the draft.
This is my guess.....there is enough draft to allow the burner to light.
When the main flame lights up the expanding heated air causes a rise in pressure that vent fan can't keep up with due to a build-up of crap somewhere....so the pressure switch (which has contacts that are held closed by the vaccuum produced by the exhuast fan) opens.
The house is able to stay warm even with this unit short-cycling.
It does reach it's high-limit and shut-down.
On Saturday, I'll be opening up the flue, and cleaning it with my dryer-vent brush. I'll also access the cast-iron heat exchangers, and give them a brushing. This boiler is about 6' away from our dryer, and I often have to vaccuum the lint from all around it. So I'm sure dryer lint has built up on the vent fan impeller and in the exhaust.
I didn't leave the control module back-fed, doing this by-passes the high limit, which in-turn would allow the burner to stay lit even if the fan shut off.....which would cause the house to fill with co2.....and we don't want that!
I appreciate the dialog, thanks for the help.
Feel free to ask electrical questions!
Calm down! First off....as a master electrician for 24 years I've done my share of trouble-shooting boilers and furnaces.
I thought a gas-tech here could save me some time, that's all.
And I'm very capable when it comes to getting things done.
(Currently doing a complete strip-down restoration of a 1968 Mustang, but let's get back to the topic)
I know not to by-pass any safety devices except for troubleshooting.
Last night, I by-passed the pressure switch when the unit was running, by feeding 24V to the gas-valve control module from the relay coil.
I then tested for voltage on the normal feed to the control module,
and sure enough, after 10 seconds the voltage dropped from 24 to 2.
The problem is in the draft.
This is my guess.....there is enough draft to allow the burner to light.
When the main flame lights up the expanding heated air causes a rise in pressure that vent fan can't keep up with due to a build-up of crap somewhere....so the pressure switch (which has contacts that are held closed by the vaccuum produced by the exhuast fan) opens.
The house is able to stay warm even with this unit short-cycling.
It does reach it's high-limit and shut-down.
On Saturday, I'll be opening up the flue, and cleaning it with my dryer-vent brush. I'll also access the cast-iron heat exchangers, and give them a brushing. This boiler is about 6' away from our dryer, and I often have to vaccuum the lint from all around it. So I'm sure dryer lint has built up on the vent fan impeller and in the exhaust.
I didn't leave the control module back-fed, doing this by-passes the high limit, which in-turn would allow the burner to stay lit even if the fan shut off.....which would cause the house to fill with co2.....and we don't want that!
I appreciate the dialog, thanks for the help.
Feel free to ask electrical questions!
Senior Member
Quote:
Yeah, I don't think that there is much a gas guy is going to be able to tell you. I think your ahead of the curve on this one.Originally Posted by mjb1032
....as a master electrician for 24 years....
Technical Article Contributor
Quote:
Calm down! First off....as a master electrician for 24 years I've done my share of trouble-shooting boilers and furnaces.
I thought a gas-tech here could save me some time, that's all.
And I'm very capable when it comes to getting things done.
(Currently doing a complete strip-down restoration of a 1968 Mustang, but let's get back to the topic)
I know not to by-pass any safety devices except for troubleshooting.
Last night, I by-passed the pressure switch when the unit was running, by feeding 24V to the gas-valve control module from the relay coil.
I then tested for voltage on the normal feed to the control module,
and sure enough, after 10 seconds the voltage dropped from 24 to 2.
The problem is in the draft.
This is my guess.....there is enough draft to allow the burner to light.
When the main flame lights up the expanding heated air causes a rise in pressure that vent fan can't keep up with due to a build-up of crap somewhere....so the pressure switch (which has contacts that are held closed by the vaccuum produced by the exhuast fan) opens.
The house is able to stay warm even with this unit short-cycling.
It does reach it's high-limit and shut-down.
On Saturday, I'll be opening up the flue, and cleaning it with my dryer-vent brush. I'll also access the cast-iron heat exchangers, and give them a brushing. This boiler is about 6' away from our dryer, and I often have to vaccuum the lint from all around it. So I'm sure dryer lint has built up on the vent fan impeller and in the exhaust.
I didn't leave the control module back-fed, doing this by-passes the high limit, which in-turn would allow the burner to stay lit even if the fan shut off.....which would cause the house to fill with co2.....and we don't want that!
I appreciate the dialog, thanks for the help.
Feel free to ask electrical questions!
Now you are talkin. Look at it like this, anyone can ask and hurt somthin, now since you have put out the effort you are making sense that you wont hurt somethin. I wasnt trying to bust ur #@#!%..... Like I mentioned earlier, pull the inducer see if its sooted up. I say this because if the pressure switch makes and the rollout isnt tripped a sensible place to start is where the exhaust enters the motor.. Chimney could be blocked as well. Best of luck. post the results.Originally Posted by mjb1032
OK People!!,Calm down! First off....as a master electrician for 24 years I've done my share of trouble-shooting boilers and furnaces.
I thought a gas-tech here could save me some time, that's all.
And I'm very capable when it comes to getting things done.
(Currently doing a complete strip-down restoration of a 1968 Mustang, but let's get back to the topic)
I know not to by-pass any safety devices except for troubleshooting.
Last night, I by-passed the pressure switch when the unit was running, by feeding 24V to the gas-valve control module from the relay coil.
I then tested for voltage on the normal feed to the control module,
and sure enough, after 10 seconds the voltage dropped from 24 to 2.
The problem is in the draft.
This is my guess.....there is enough draft to allow the burner to light.
When the main flame lights up the expanding heated air causes a rise in pressure that vent fan can't keep up with due to a build-up of crap somewhere....so the pressure switch (which has contacts that are held closed by the vaccuum produced by the exhuast fan) opens.
The house is able to stay warm even with this unit short-cycling.
It does reach it's high-limit and shut-down.
On Saturday, I'll be opening up the flue, and cleaning it with my dryer-vent brush. I'll also access the cast-iron heat exchangers, and give them a brushing. This boiler is about 6' away from our dryer, and I often have to vaccuum the lint from all around it. So I'm sure dryer lint has built up on the vent fan impeller and in the exhaust.
I didn't leave the control module back-fed, doing this by-passes the high limit, which in-turn would allow the burner to stay lit even if the fan shut off.....which would cause the house to fill with co2.....and we don't want that!
I appreciate the dialog, thanks for the help.
Feel free to ask electrical questions!
there is no draft to check with an inducer moter, thats why it has a pressure switch...See what temp the limit is tripping at.
Technical Article Contributor
Quote:
How much are you, the professional, going to charge me? You are going to pull the inducer, on a natural gas boiler, looking for soot? If combustion was poor enough to cause soot, my gas bill would have been way too high previously. My basic power vented hydronic boiler is short cycling. Why are you going to check things that wouldn't directly contribute to the problem. I can see checking co and co2 if you are adjusting fuel/air and/or optimizing efficeincy, but my boiler is short cycling and I just need it to work properly.
I'm really not trying to argue with you here but the OP sounded like he might be able to figure out the problem him self. He sounds like he has a basic understanding of how his system works. He's not dealing with some ultra high efficency, condensating, modulating, direct vent boiler with an outdoor reset, serving a multi-zone radiant/DHW combination system.
You've got a bunch of people in this board who have done some pretty serious mods to thier F150's. You've got to give people here a little credit. The OP's boiler isn't anything compared to doing rear gears, swapping heads or installing a roots type supercharger.
It's not good to oversimplify, but it doesn't need to be that complicated either. That's all I'm saying.
you are half correct with this i am not going any further with the subject. you win Originally Posted by wittom
mjb1032, I didn't mean to divert your thread. Hope that you've got your situation figured out.How much are you, the professional, going to charge me? You are going to pull the inducer, on a natural gas boiler, looking for soot? If combustion was poor enough to cause soot, my gas bill would have been way too high previously. My basic power vented hydronic boiler is short cycling. Why are you going to check things that wouldn't directly contribute to the problem. I can see checking co and co2 if you are adjusting fuel/air and/or optimizing efficeincy, but my boiler is short cycling and I just need it to work properly.
I'm really not trying to argue with you here but the OP sounded like he might be able to figure out the problem him self. He sounds like he has a basic understanding of how his system works. He's not dealing with some ultra high efficency, condensating, modulating, direct vent boiler with an outdoor reset, serving a multi-zone radiant/DHW combination system.
You've got a bunch of people in this board who have done some pretty serious mods to thier F150's. You've got to give people here a little credit. The OP's boiler isn't anything compared to doing rear gears, swapping heads or installing a roots type supercharger.
It's not good to oversimplify, but it doesn't need to be that complicated either. That's all I'm saying.
Technical Article Contributor
Quote:
Originally Posted by wittom
Yeah, I don't think that there is much a gas guy is going to be able to tell you. I think your ahead of the curve on this one.
In order to do hvac you need to know electric and plumbing.....lol
Senior Member
but to do electrical, you do not need them,fyi