There is a lot of good stuff here. I've asked this question a few times of well educated Christians, and the all supported a good balanced view it. The two scriptures I like are Galations 5:19-21, which concludes "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: ...; drunkenness, ... that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God," and 1 Pet 4:3-5 which includes drunkenness along with idolatry as something "they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead."

Clearly drinking too much wine daily is a sin, but drinking some wine was allowed and encouraged. Psalms 104:15, 1Tim 5:23. This is where balance is important. How much wine is too much wine. Some drink no wine at all, thus not taking the risk in the first place because the risk is greater than the reward. There is also a concern that they could unknowingly stumble someone else by drinking in their presence.

We know Jesus drank wine with the disciples at the last supper, and Mat 11:16-19 shows that John did not drink wine, but Jesus did, and his critics found fault in both of their examples.

A good balanced view is that a glass of wine at the right time in the right place is fine, beyond that is risk, and drinking a glass of iced tea instead is often a better choice, certainly the safer option.

 

A few points is that DRUNKENNESS and Drinking are two different things. I drink but have never been drunk, didnt even drink alcohol till I was 22. Self-control I believe is a core belief in Christianity. Personally, this year, I vowed not to buy any beer or cigars as long as I am in credit card debt.

As my last point, BEER is about one of the last few things you can buy still MADE IN AMERICA!

 

Read the entire passage about the wedding in Cana. It clearly states there were 6 stone pots that held 20-30 gallons of water. All the jars were filled to the brim. This means 120-180 gallons of wine was made. That much wine could get a small city pretty tipsy. To me this shows that God isn't stingy, he will supply much more than you could ever need.

John 2: 8-10 reads:
The passage states the master of the banquet (the wine expert) commented on how this was the best wine (see my prior post) and that everyone has had too much to drink to tell the good from the bad. To me it is quite obvious the people were over the limit or why else would the master make the comment? Furthermore, you can not confuse grape juice with wine. They are a slightly different color, they taste nothing alike, the smell is completely different and they even behave differently in the glass.

If the idea of Christ making an alcoholic beverage bothers you so much that you must change the story, fine. In the long run it will not make much difference in the grand scheme of life. However, be aware that you are cutting out the best part of the miracle when you do this. I honestly never gave this story much credit because of hearing the Lite version as a kid in church. It was not until I grew older and learned to appreciate wine that I could truly see the power in this passage.

 

You make some good points on this miracle, thanks for the education.

 

In the OT, God didn't list it in his "Top 10", unless you make alcohol your god.


OTOH, if you break one of the other nine while under the influence, God's not take any excuses.

 

I dont drink, Im a Southern Baptist Christian. I view drinking as a sin for what it does to a human body. Its a poison. Im not sure where in the Bible it goes into this but i know its in there. One is not supposed to degrate their bodies, drinking something that has a negative affect on mind and body would deffinitely be a sin. Ill grab my Bible and try to find the scripture im speaking of.

 

You will be looking a while. I too am "Southern Baptist". The baptist covenant was written during prohibition. hence the negative view on drinking and dancing. When prohibition was repealed, the Baptist never changed the covenant. Before that, there was no negative view. Also, as a contest, A Coke does more long term damage to your body then a beer.

 

I think the message of the New Testament is that we are all sinners, and we are to do our best to overcome that. But the fact is Jesus offered himself in sacrifice for our sins, and he is our intercessor with the Father. He pleads our case to the Father and begs for our forgiveness.

I used to drink, but I don't anymore, that is a choice I made, and I have been forgiven for it if it is a sin.

 

yeah if you live in a cave.

SODA in general is bad, but you are comparing apples to oranges. Since when was someone pulled over and arrest for having too much SODA. Never, soda doesnt affect the state of your mind.

Ive seen what beer can do to a body, my dad was a heavy drinker for most of my life till just a year or two ago.

take the same person multiply him by 2 and give one nothing but beer and one nothing but SODA which one lives longest. Diabetes SPLL will kill one more than likely. Bones will be so brittle you wouldnt beable to walk. It wouldnt be pretty for either

 

One debate someone can throw at you with that is that wine has been proven to help the body. I understand excessive drinking is horrible for you, but they say one glass a night works wonders.

Looking forward to hearing the verses. I can bring up the ones mentioned at the next class.

 

Me personally im not speaking of WINE. i still dont by anything they say about that anyway, hell at one time or another they will say everythings good for you, chocolate, salt, wine, beer, meth... i dont play into these games, but thats a different debate.

Im more speaking of beer, liquor would be even worse IMO. But i dont know too many people that have the will power to only drink one EVERY NIGHT. if you are drinking every night then i bet that one glass is more like 3 or 4.

But i geuss what we all need to get at here is excessive anything is bad for you.

 

Unless you have a special Southern Baptist version of the Bible you will not find it. Every verse cautions against excessive drinking. I can however point you to 1 Timothy 5:23 which says,

There have been dozens of studies on the health benefits of MODERARE alcohol consumption. The general consensus of the medical community is that limited consumption does your body good. It is often refered to as the French Paradox. Here are just a few of the things you can read about:

Moderate Drinking May Cut Women's Risk of Diabetes

Moderate Drinking May Cut Dementia Risk

Light-to-moderate alcohol intake may prevent stroke

Wine linked with lower lung cancer risk

Drinking Wine May Lower Risk for Upper Digestive Tract Cancer

Regular, Moderate Alcohol Consumption Protects Against Atherosclerosis

Women Wine Drinkers Have Fewer Kidney Stones

and the list goes on for quite a long time. The key word is moderation. It has also been found that beer will also provide many of the same benefits that wine does.

The problem is that many people learn to drink when they are young and rebellious. They see it as a way to lash out against their parents and authority in general. Because of this it becomes ingrained into them to push the limits and abuse alcohol. This abuse can lead to the health problems that alcohol can bring. I think we should do a better job of teaching young teens about alcohol and what it does. It is pretty clear that making it a demon does not work. It only makes its allure that much stronger.

 

not gonna comment on the rest of the crap. cause like i said that another discussion, no matter what links you pull up saying that i can pull up links saying its not true.

But what i will comment on its about the kids rebelling. KEEP YOUR KIDS UNDER CONTROL, I was raised by a stricked family. Spankings were frequent. I wouldnt dare do something just to spite my family. Thats the biggest difference in todays society. Disipline in this society has became so much based on emotions instead of based on beliefs of right and wrong. I cant count how many people i see smack their kids when they are being bad and get frustrated, this shouldnt happen. Parents should be calm cool and collective before able to disipline a child. My dad used to tell me that it hurt him more to spank me than it hurt me, now that im a dad i understand that.

I hate underage drinking with a passion, i hate drinking and driving with a passion. I wont tell you not to drink if you are of age, thats your choice to make.

 

How is it another debate? You mentioned an obscure still unknown verse that said drinking was bad. I quoted a verse straight from the New Testament that lauded the health benefits of light drinking. A proper response would have been to respond with the verse you promised.

If you must dismiss this verse to keep your faith that is between you and the author. I just happen to believe it and the medical community has verified what was written. Would it be wrong to say, "I'll drink (but only a little bit) to that?"

 

Usually people that defend drinking forget to mention that all we have today is "strong drink." Which is forbidden in the Bible. You literally can barely drink one glass without getting tipsy (if one is not a regular drinker).

Today, with as much alcohol that is in a glass of wine or a beer, someone who is average weight can get tipsy (drunk) very easily. So in comparison, a few sips is all we really need of wine/beer to help with digestion, which is what Timothy 5:23 was referring to.