Doverman pincher and home insurance...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 11:09 AM
  #16  
Bluejay's Avatar
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Originally Posted by ManualF150
I see your point, however...

You can't be in control of the dog, as it's a living creature that has it's own mind. It's got it's own intelligence basically.

Also, all you need is a sign that says "Beware of Dog" and your behind is covered. People don't have to go on your property.

Where does it say in the laws that if you own a piece of land, that I have rights to step foot on it? If I step on your land that is immediate grounds of trespassing.

People sueing for dog bites are added to those who sue others for other stupid crap.

I've gotten bitten by many of my friend's dogs, one in which almost took my finger off... did I sue him? No, because I knew the risks.

Lets face it, common sense prevails around animals -- they can bite. If you are stupid enough to go on someone's property and think that pretty little doggy won't gnaw off your hand or leg, then you are stupid.
Common sense and signs have nothing to do with the fact that insurance contracts can and will say that they will not cover the homeower if they have certain breeds. It's a contract of insurance that can say whatever the seller wishes it to say.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 11:57 AM
  #17  
ManualF150's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by Bluejay
Common sense and signs have nothing to do with the fact that insurance contracts can and will say that they will not cover the homeower if they have certain breeds. It's a contract of insurance that can say whatever the seller wishes it to say.
But the point I am saying is home owners insurance shouldn't cover any dogs regardless of breed. A dog is not part of the house and is not an asset to the house, like furniture for example.

Secondly insurance of this nature is for different purposes. It's for a house and it only covers assets of the house.

That's why you've got different types of insurance, auto, life, property, and even yes, animal insurance.

If your homeowners insurance covers a lawsuit against you if your dog attacks a visitor, I would say that is grounds for treason based on the insurance company's contract. Why? Simply because there is a subordinate insurance for dogs, like there is auto insurance.

In my mind it is illegal to offer insurance on something and have another insurance for it.

Just like homeowners insurance covering your truck if you left it in your garage and the garage caught fire. The homeowners shall only cover the structure, and since there is subordinate insurance such as auto insurance shall only cover the truck and the contents within the truck. NOT the homeowners covering everything.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 12:04 PM
  #18  
Bluejay's Avatar
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Originally Posted by ManualF150
But the point I am saying is home owners insurance shouldn't cover any dogs regardless of breed. A dog is not part of the house and is not an asset to the house, like furniture for example.

Secondly insurance of this nature is for different purposes. It's for a house and it only covers assets of the house.

That's why you've got different types of insurance, auto, life, property, and even yes, animal insurance.

If your homeowners insurance covers a lawsuit against you if your dog attacks a visitor, I would say that is grounds for treason based on the insurance company's contract. Why? Simply because there is a subordinate insurance for dogs, like there is auto insurance.

In my mind it is illegal to offer insurance on something and have another insurance for it.

Just like homeowners insurance covering your truck if you left it in your garage and the garage caught fire. The homeowners shall only cover the structure, and since there is subordinate insurance such as auto insurance shall only cover the truck and the contents within the truck. NOT the homeowners covering everything.
You are not getting it. We are talking about the LIABILITY that the homeoners policy covers. If you come to my house and trip on a rug, break your body, you can sue me and my homeowners policy covers that. If you come to my home and my cat claws out your eyes, my homeowners cover that. If my rat terrier bites you and you sue me, my homeowners policy covers that liability. Now if I have a Doberman and my ploicy states that it will not cover any damage that Doberman does to a visitor, then when you sue, I have to pay out of my pocket.
 
__________________
Jim
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 12:12 PM
  #19  
ManualF150's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by Bluejay
You are not getting it. We are talking about the LIABILITY that the homeoners policy covers. If you come to my house and trip on a rug, break your body, you can sue me and my homeowners policy covers that. If you come to my home and my cat claws out your eyes, my homeowners cover that. If my rat terrier bites you and you sue me, my homeowners policy covers that liability. Now if I have a Doberman and my ploicy states that it will not cover any damage that Doberman does to a visitor, then when you sue, I have to pay out of my pocket.
I went off of the beaten tangent. :o

Same thing applies here. Since your rug is an asset to the house, and I trip over it and I break all the bones in my body and sue, that's different. Now that is a true liability.

Since your cat is not an asset to the house and is able to have subordinate insurance, your homeowners should not be covering it.

Just as if you forgot to put the truck in park in your driveway and it somehow moves and pins me underneath, it all auto insurance, if the homeowners covers it, technically, there is legal treason there.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 12:21 PM
  #20  
Bluejay's Avatar
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Originally Posted by ManualF150
I went off of the beaten tangent. :o

Same thing applies here. Since your rug is an asset to the house, and I trip over it and I break all the bones in my body and sue, that's different. Now that is a true liability.

Since your cat is not an asset to the house and is able to have subordinate insurance, your homeowners should not be covering it.

Just as if you forgot to put the truck in park in your driveway and it somehow moves and pins me underneath, it all auto insurance, if the homeowners covers it, technically, there is legal treason there.
You better not tell my cat she is not an asset! The homeowers will cover you if my truck rolls over you on my property. Anything that happens to you on my property is covered unless specifically excluded.
 
__________________
Jim
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 12:44 PM
  #21  
J-150's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,316
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ManualF150

Also, all you need is a sign that says "Beware of Dog" and your behind is covered. People don't have to go on your property.

Where does it say in the laws that if you own a piece of land, that I have rights to step foot on it? If I step on your land that is immediate grounds of trespassing.

People sueing for dog bites are added to those who sue others for other stupid crap.

I've gotten bitten by many of my friend's dogs, one in which almost took my finger off... did I sue him? No, because I knew the risks.

Lets face it, common sense prevails around animals -- they can bite. If you are stupid enough to go on someone's property and think that pretty little doggy won't gnaw off your hand or leg, then you are stupid.



and what if the dog gets out?

what if the dog attacks the mailman or the gas meter reader who both have a right to be there?


as far as "beware of dog" have fun with that.In civil court its called admission of your dog being dangerous and therefore increases your rresponsibility should the dog attack. Don't believe me? Look it up or talk to a personal injury lawyer. They will tell you the same. "Beware of Dog" signs double the awarded damages in a civil action
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 12:48 PM
  #22  
J-150's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,316
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ManualF150
I went off of the beaten tangent. :o

Same thing applies here. Since your rug is an asset to the house, and I trip over it and I break all the bones in my body and sue, that's different. Now that is a true liability.

Since your cat is not an asset to the house and is able to have subordinate insurance, your homeowners should not be covering it.

Just as if you forgot to put the truck in park in your driveway and it somehow moves and pins me underneath, it all auto insurance, if the homeowners covers it, technically, there is legal treason there.



all I have to say on this is go ahead. buy whatever dog you want. let it attack whomever it wants with its own independent thinking (your words) and then sell your house to pay the civil damages. Unless of course you have a few hundred thousand in cash to pay it from the bank account

go ahead. no one is stopping you.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 01:21 PM
  #23  
SSCULLY's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,511
Likes: 10
From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by Bluejay
You are not getting it. We are talking about the LIABILITY that the homeowners policy covers. If you come to my house and trip on a rug, break your body, you can sue me and my homeowners policy covers that. If you come to my home and my cat claws out your eyes, my homeowners cover that. If my rat terrier bites you and you sue me, my homeowners policy covers that liability. Now if I have a Doberman and my policy states that it will not cover any damage that Doberman does to a visitor, then when you sue, I have to pay out of my pocket.
Some ins companies will specifically ask about dogs, and to list every dog type on the property.

If you falsify the application ( omit a dog, or change the breed type ), your coverage can be terminated with that as the cause for termination.
The false answer to a question on the application makes the contract null and void ( state by state insurance regulations might limit this ).

Take the combo case, a Dob chases someone around, and causes them to impale them self on a fence.
If the ins company finds out the dog that caused the incident to the injured party was on the ban list ( or not listed with the additional ins premium payments), they can deny coverage for the claim ( had the dob not been there, it would not have chased the injured party to the fence, and the claim would not have happened).
Depending on state regulations, the ins company might be required to cover the medical costs, but if any additional suite takes place, they will not represent you, nor will they cover the judgment against you ( compensatory damages vs. punitive damages )

The rug, cat, etc are not assets of the house, they are contents, which unless the policy excludes a specific item, the use of the content in causing a claim is covered ( this is why pool, trampoline, etc are either added with the attractive nuisance costs included, or banned ).
If the rug is a $10K antique rug, if someone trips on it bashing their brains out, the claim for the person is covered ( use of the contents )
The replacement for the rug due to blood stains is not covered ( unless a rider listing the rug and its value are included, which the ins cost will reflect ).

This year I helped the mrs study for the INS 21, 22, and 23 tests and found out more about insurance than I really wanted to know.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 05:22 PM
  #24  
ManualF150's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Some ins companies will specifically ask about dogs, and to list every dog type on the property.

If you falsify the application ( omit a dog, or change the breed type ), your coverage can be terminated with that as the cause for termination.
The false answer to a question on the application makes the contract null and void ( state by state insurance regulations might limit this ).

Take the combo case, a Dob chases someone around, and causes them to impale them self on a fence.
If the ins company finds out the dog that caused the incident to the injured party was on the ban list ( or not listed with the additional ins premium payments), they can deny coverage for the claim ( had the dob not been there, it would not have chased the injured party to the fence, and the claim would not have happened).
Depending on state regulations, the ins company might be required to cover the medical costs, but if any additional suite takes place, they will not represent you, nor will they cover the judgment against you ( compensatory damages vs. punitive damages )

The rug, cat, etc are not assets of the house, they are contents, which unless the policy excludes a specific item, the use of the content in causing a claim is covered ( this is why pool, trampoline, etc are either added with the attractive nuisance costs included, or banned ).
If the rug is a $10K antique rug, if someone trips on it bashing their brains out, the claim for the person is covered ( use of the contents )
The replacement for the rug due to blood stains is not covered ( unless a rider listing the rug and its value are included, which the ins cost will reflect ).

This year I helped the mrs study for the INS 21, 22, and 23 tests and found out more about insurance than I really wanted to know.
Hmm... interesting.

I just wonder how the heck insurance companies stay in business.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 06:05 PM
  #25  
Klitch's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 5
From: Washington
Any dog can be dangerous...

people have seen my CHOW mix and run away, or yelled "Be careful its a chow"
really? chows aren't really aggressive even according to literature on them, VERY defensive though much like Akita, GS, DP... Great guard dogs. My chow is lazy as hell. only bit one person in like 12-13 years... My brother n his friend were getting too rough for my dogs liking, so he nipped his friends ***.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 06:05 PM
  #26  
Bluejay's Avatar
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Originally Posted by ManualF150
Hmm... interesting.

I just wonder how the heck insurance companies stay in business.
Don't worry, they do quite well. I have paid premiums for 45 years and never had a claim filed.
 
__________________
Jim
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 06:24 PM
  #27  
ManualF150's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by Bluejay
Don't worry, they do quite well. I have paid premiums for 45 years and never had a claim filed.
But just think, if you never file a claim, you just paid my insurance claim.

Figure that one out... you are giving to the poor to make them rich -- sleazy eh?

Can I come over to your house and trip on your area rug out in your den? I need some quik cash...

At least you'll feel bad that I smashed my face, but also good to know that you just helped a dear o'le pal out.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 06:31 PM
  #28  
Bluejay's Avatar
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Insurance is all a game of numbers. Statistics. A game of probability. You can't afford to not have it, in fact, if you have a loan, you must have it. They know what premiums have to be to cover their losses and make a nice profit.
 
__________________
Jim
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 08:03 PM
  #29  
Oxlander's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
From: Marshall, Tx
Originally Posted by Bluejay
Insurance is all a game of numbers. Statistics. A game of probability. You can't afford to not have it, in fact, if you have a loan, you must have it. They know what premiums have to be to cover their losses and make a nice profit.
Which is why when the stock market is down your premiums are sure to rise.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2009 | 08:31 PM
  #30  
SSCULLY's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,511
Likes: 10
From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by ManualF150
But just think, if you never file a claim, you just paid my insurance claim.

Figure that one out... you are giving to the poor to make them rich -- sleazy eh?
...<snip>.....
That is exactly the game, the claims for some are spread to all.

There are regulatory guidelines for how much cash they must have on hand for the number of policies that they have written, even to the point that the realization of the revenue for a 1 year paid in full ( and multi year ) policy cannot be made until a time frame ( usually the half year mark )
What they invest the cash reserves in, is also regulated.

Think of it as an insurance pool for individuals, the risk is spread over a wider range of customers, in varying areas ( so everyone is not in a Hurricane area, or flooding area ).
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:23 PM.