Iran, USA, what's the difference, really?
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From: Concordia, MO
Move to Canada then. If they would take you.
Or anywhere else.
Perhaps you could move to Iran, N. Korea, or another country the the US has no presence in.
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From: Memphis
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
I didn't mention the constitution--we quit supporting it long ago, hence the reason we are in the predicament we are in.
Good thing I still have a copy of it though---Maybe one day we will get to support it again.
PS, the Oath does not have an expiration date or a political affiliation either. www.oathkeepers.org/
Last edited by msparks; Nov 18, 2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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From: Concordia, MO
Sorry, can't do that. I'm too busy defending OUR empire against all enemies foreign and domestic, and following the orders those officers appointed over me and the President of the United States.
I didn't mention the constitution--we quit supporting it long ago, hence the reason we are in the predicament we are in.
Good thing I still have a copy of it though---Maybe one day we will get to support it again.
PS, the Oath does not have an expiration date or a political affiliation either. www.oathkeepers.org/
I didn't mention the constitution--we quit supporting it long ago, hence the reason we are in the predicament we are in.
Good thing I still have a copy of it though---Maybe one day we will get to support it again.
PS, the Oath does not have an expiration date or a political affiliation either. www.oathkeepers.org/
Unless you are happy and on-board with "Empire building and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in foreign countries".
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From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by msparks
I would say the biggest difference is that Iran is not engaged in active Empire building. They are not Killing Hundreds of thousands of civilians in foreign countries like we are.
I would say the biggest difference is that Iran is not engaged in active Empire building. They are not Killing Hundreds of thousands of civilians in foreign countries like we are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Iran
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
I've tried to stay out of the healthcare debates on here because it really is none of my business but I would just like to add my 2c worth here after Frank's last statement.
A few years ago, a very good friend of mine had an industrial accident whilst working on an oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico.
He was quite seriously hurt with head and back injuries.
After being flown ashore and treated for his immediate injuries, he basically ended up in court in some kind of crazy 3-way split between his own insurance (provided by his employer), the insurers of the platform and the platform operating company as to who was responsible for paying for his healthcare.
His own insurance didn't want to pay as they claimed the platform owners responsible who then in turn blamed the operating company.
This went on so long, leaving my friend in a wheelchair in the process, that he then had to pay out of his own pocket for further operations to restore his health,
Needless to say, the lawyers dragged it out so much that most of the settlement ended up in lawyers fees etc.
My friend ended up losing his health through lack of prompt treatment, his job because he couldn't work and his vehicles because he couldn't make the payments.
He just managed to keep hold of his house and that was only because his wife took on an extra job in addition to her teachers duties and help from friends and family.
All they had worked and saved for over the last 20 years is gone and they are virtually bankrupt.
What a sad state of affairs. My friend HAD insurance but his own doctors and the other doctors appointed by the other companies all had different opinions of the treatment needed (thus costs) which left my friend nowhere.
In countries (such as the UK) with socialized medicine, this absolutely would not happen.
There's no arguments over treatment. It wouldn't be rationed. You would receive immediate care and not be bankrupted.
Sure, there are waiting lists for what is really "non essential" procedures but that's part and parcel of it. If you want to pay a bit extra and go private, you can and it doesn't cost that much extra.
I really cannot understand the argument for not paying a fair tax towards healthcare especially if your insurance payment is removed from the equation.
You pay for everyone's military. You pay for the police and fire departments which are for all.
Why is healthcare different?
A few years ago, a very good friend of mine had an industrial accident whilst working on an oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico.
He was quite seriously hurt with head and back injuries.
After being flown ashore and treated for his immediate injuries, he basically ended up in court in some kind of crazy 3-way split between his own insurance (provided by his employer), the insurers of the platform and the platform operating company as to who was responsible for paying for his healthcare.
His own insurance didn't want to pay as they claimed the platform owners responsible who then in turn blamed the operating company.
This went on so long, leaving my friend in a wheelchair in the process, that he then had to pay out of his own pocket for further operations to restore his health,
Needless to say, the lawyers dragged it out so much that most of the settlement ended up in lawyers fees etc.
My friend ended up losing his health through lack of prompt treatment, his job because he couldn't work and his vehicles because he couldn't make the payments.
He just managed to keep hold of his house and that was only because his wife took on an extra job in addition to her teachers duties and help from friends and family.
All they had worked and saved for over the last 20 years is gone and they are virtually bankrupt.
What a sad state of affairs. My friend HAD insurance but his own doctors and the other doctors appointed by the other companies all had different opinions of the treatment needed (thus costs) which left my friend nowhere.
In countries (such as the UK) with socialized medicine, this absolutely would not happen.
There's no arguments over treatment. It wouldn't be rationed. You would receive immediate care and not be bankrupted.
Sure, there are waiting lists for what is really "non essential" procedures but that's part and parcel of it. If you want to pay a bit extra and go private, you can and it doesn't cost that much extra.
I really cannot understand the argument for not paying a fair tax towards healthcare especially if your insurance payment is removed from the equation.
You pay for everyone's military. You pay for the police and fire departments which are for all.
Why is healthcare different?
Last edited by Frank S; Nov 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM.
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
Give Iran the power of nuclear weapons, and you will see empire destruction. Even the Saudis know this.
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
As a Canadian I wonder the same thing.
As an outsider looking in, this resistance towards Health-Care Reform seems so incredibly selfish.
“Boo hoo hoo, I’ll pay for mine, you pay for yours”
Like Adam said, why stop with health-care? There was another member from Chicago who brought up the example of having a fire department, if your house catches on fire, why pay for a fire department to put out your neighbour’s fire? Screw him, he can put it out himself, and you worry about yours. That’s basically how it sounds.
My wife & I don’t have children yet a certain % of my property taxes goes towards education, if I took the selfish health-care argument, I could say “Hey, you pay for your kids schooling, and I’ll pay for mine? I could make the same argument, why should I pay for your kid’s education; same like you say why should you pay for my health-care. It all balances out.
It’s funny how the most vocal opponents to Health-Care Reform are always quoting how bad Canada’s system is, and using that to strengthen their argument, but you don’t ever hear how bad it is by Canadians, it’s always some guy who has never even been to Canada who happened to hear it from a friend of a friend.
Another observation that I find extremely fascinating and ironic is how many Christians there are on this message board who are so vehemently opposed to Health-Care Reform, and how they are so vocal about “you pay for yours and I’ll pay for mine”
What happened to helping your neighbour and all that good stuff? Funny how that works.
I get a sense from some of the posts that certain people think a person gets sick because he is irresponsible and didn't do things properly, and you resent paying for someone's mistakes; but this isn't always the case, sometimes bad things happen to good people and regardless of how careful you were or how responsible you were, bad things will still happen.
What's so wrong with helping someone in need? I'm happy to have the health-care we get in Canada and I wouldn't trade it with any of you guys if you paid me; that's how terrible I think it is.
As an outsider looking in, this resistance towards Health-Care Reform seems so incredibly selfish.
“Boo hoo hoo, I’ll pay for mine, you pay for yours”
Like Adam said, why stop with health-care? There was another member from Chicago who brought up the example of having a fire department, if your house catches on fire, why pay for a fire department to put out your neighbour’s fire? Screw him, he can put it out himself, and you worry about yours. That’s basically how it sounds.
My wife & I don’t have children yet a certain % of my property taxes goes towards education, if I took the selfish health-care argument, I could say “Hey, you pay for your kids schooling, and I’ll pay for mine? I could make the same argument, why should I pay for your kid’s education; same like you say why should you pay for my health-care. It all balances out.
It’s funny how the most vocal opponents to Health-Care Reform are always quoting how bad Canada’s system is, and using that to strengthen their argument, but you don’t ever hear how bad it is by Canadians, it’s always some guy who has never even been to Canada who happened to hear it from a friend of a friend.
Another observation that I find extremely fascinating and ironic is how many Christians there are on this message board who are so vehemently opposed to Health-Care Reform, and how they are so vocal about “you pay for yours and I’ll pay for mine”
What happened to helping your neighbour and all that good stuff? Funny how that works.
I get a sense from some of the posts that certain people think a person gets sick because he is irresponsible and didn't do things properly, and you resent paying for someone's mistakes; but this isn't always the case, sometimes bad things happen to good people and regardless of how careful you were or how responsible you were, bad things will still happen.
What's so wrong with helping someone in need? I'm happy to have the health-care we get in Canada and I wouldn't trade it with any of you guys if you paid me; that's how terrible I think it is.
Actually Habs, the Bible states that we are to work for our own "stuff." The Bible says to treat your neighbor as you would yourself (don't steal his "stuff", don't covet his stuff, don't sleep with his wife, etc.)
I will say this, this country needs to get back to sound money and away from the inflationary monetary policies of the Federal Reserve System. They have eroded 96% of the dollar's buying power since 1913 through the printing of money. This makes the cost of everything go up. Central banks have destroyed the value of currencies around the world by printing money out of thin air.
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The text applies to both.
Where I don't see a direct paralell is the circumstances.
I can only comment based on others accounts of what happened in both cases, and I admit, I haven't spent a ton of time researching either.
At Kent State, the National Guard was called uopn by the governer presumably to address the growing civil unrest on campus. In Tehran the Basij were called upon by the regime as a subsidiary of the Revolutionary Guard to silence the "green revolution".
At Kent State, it appears that it was the protesters who were the agressors. In Tehran, it appears that the opposition to Ahmadinejads "landslide victory" were peaceful in their protest and were confronted with violence by the Basij, who rode into their march on motocycles clubbing people. In both cases the protesters became violent and destructive.
In both cases innocent people were killed. There were four at Kent State, and at least eleven in Tehran. Maybe more than thirty-four. In the days and weeks following the Kent State shootings, there was a nation wide effort to bring this event to the forefront. It also further highlighted the opposition to the war. There were some important lessons learned and changes made in the way that crowds were dispersed. In Tehran, the blame for the killings was put on the protesters by the State. Neda, who had become the face of the revolution because of her death, was, and is, marginalized and ridiculed. People in Iran are even more fearful of opposing thier government.
I don't believe that I would protest our government in a destructive rally. I have taken part in several peaceful rallies though. I am concerned that our government may create it's own "Basij", or civillian army, and perhaps use some tactics that were used in Iran. They are already using their nationalized bully pulpit to minimalize and marginalize a large segment or our population. It can make you wonder if they could advance to the next level.
Where I don't see a direct paralell is the circumstances.
I can only comment based on others accounts of what happened in both cases, and I admit, I haven't spent a ton of time researching either.
At Kent State, the National Guard was called uopn by the governer presumably to address the growing civil unrest on campus. In Tehran the Basij were called upon by the regime as a subsidiary of the Revolutionary Guard to silence the "green revolution".
At Kent State, it appears that it was the protesters who were the agressors. In Tehran, it appears that the opposition to Ahmadinejads "landslide victory" were peaceful in their protest and were confronted with violence by the Basij, who rode into their march on motocycles clubbing people. In both cases the protesters became violent and destructive.
In both cases innocent people were killed. There were four at Kent State, and at least eleven in Tehran. Maybe more than thirty-four. In the days and weeks following the Kent State shootings, there was a nation wide effort to bring this event to the forefront. It also further highlighted the opposition to the war. There were some important lessons learned and changes made in the way that crowds were dispersed. In Tehran, the blame for the killings was put on the protesters by the State. Neda, who had become the face of the revolution because of her death, was, and is, marginalized and ridiculed. People in Iran are even more fearful of opposing thier government.
I don't believe that I would protest our government in a destructive rally. I have taken part in several peaceful rallies though. I am concerned that our government may create it's own "Basij", or civillian army, and perhaps use some tactics that were used in Iran. They are already using their nationalized bully pulpit to minimalize and marginalize a large segment or our population. It can make you wonder if they could advance to the next level.
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To compare the tragedy and what was certainly wrongful death at Kent State 40 years ago with what has happened, and continues to happen in a country such as Iran is simply disgusting. You folks really have to stop dribbling all over the keyboard and get out in the light. This is just pure garbage, not anywhere close to what could be called reasonable debate.
Where in Hell do all these moral equivalence spewing orcs come from anyhow?
Where in Hell do all these moral equivalence spewing orcs come from anyhow?
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From: the moral high ground
The dead students were over a 100 yards from the Guard.
Yet they are labeled aggressors by some, while imortalized by Neil Young's 'Ohio'.
I don't want Lee Greenwood writing a protest song about you.
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