Ustahavaranger should check the lemon laws. It pertains to the quality of the vehicle and not the ability to pay for it. They cannot stop action on a lemon case because of a late payment. His dealer was screwing him.

 

Godd*mn Ford @ssh*oles!!! I just had me meeting with the regional rep and field engineer weenie and it was a total and complete waste of my time!! The enginner jerk looked the vehicle over and told me that the difficulty engaging and disengaging 4L was normal, which after owning several 4x4's I know is absolute BULLSH*T!

He fed me the line of BS about Ford engineering claiming the radiator was sufficient and even stuck to that once I explained how they were listed in the Source Books, and that even the '01 still specifies a larger radiator. He said that they must have though my particular vehicle didn't need it. Talk about a line of BS.

The rubbing sound that I had from the front left wheel was also considered "normal" too, which obviously isn't since it started after the truck was 3 months old.

He said that the rail dust was fixable but I told him I heard that it could reoccur and he agreed that it often does. So I told him that it wasn't fixable unless the vehicle was re-painted which he refused to do.

Now the kicker was my oil leak. I've got the infamous 4.6L passenger side oil leak which based on my reading usually ends up with the engine being replaced. They weren't willing to do that, and said that the simply replacing the gasket was sufficient. By this point I was ready to go for the juggular, I can't belileve the **** I was being told, and by a "trained" engineer.

So when the diagnosis was complete I explained the service history of my vehicle and that based on the text of the NYS lemon law (which I had with me) that I felt I was a candidate but that I didn't want things to get that far and was willing to comprimise, as long as they were. (which they weren't) I was basically told that the number of service visits was totally unimportant and that warranties are for fixing vehicles and that's it.

It ended up with my leaving with nothing being accomplished, and me with a broken vehicle. Now I'm extremely pissed at Ford and am considering my options at this point, anyone have any suggestions for me??

------------------
2000 F-150 XLT *LEMON*.

Lemon: Rail Dust, Wrong Radiator, Defective Transfer Case, Oil Leak by Torque Convertor, Intermittant Air Bag MIL, Popping Rear Window, Clunking/Creaking RF Wheel, Dealer-Installed Bug Shield Damaged Grill, and Squeaky Seat Belt.

Ford is giving me a run-around trying to fix ths truck!!!

Truck: Reg Cab/Long Box, Styleside, Oxford White, Dark Graphite Int., 4x4, 4.6L, 3.55 L/S, Off-Road pkg (Skid Plates, Cab Steps, Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers, LT265/70R17SL), Class III Towing pkg with Heavy Duty Cooling pkg, 4 wheel disk ABS, Overhead Console, Factory In-Dash CD, Remote Keyless Entry, and Sliding Rear Window.

Mods: Superchip, Cabin Air Filtration, Ventvisors, Ford Bug Deflector, Ford Bedliner.

2000 Polaris Sportsman 500, Camo Green, 4x4, 499cc 4-stroke, independent suspension, shaft drive, 4 wheel disc brakes, etc.

 

Y2K - you've apparently done all you can & followed all the rules. Now it's time to take more decisive action - use the Lemon Law & get a new truck or a refund. There is no way you'll ever have this truck repaired satisfactorily, if at all. I'd contact a lawyer too - they seem to make a difference.
Have you also thought of contacting a local Investagative Reporter? They can persuade the most stubborn people to re-think a situation! The idea that your problems may be made public is sure to make the dealer fight FOR you as opposed to allowing you to be taken advantage of the way you are.
Good luck - you've been more patient than most & you deserve better treatment than you are receiving.

------------------

www.andthensometoo.com/owners/cowlady
Love my truck & PROUD of it! If you can't beat 'em, you're NOT driving a FORD!
Shovies PROVE that FORD'S are #1!!
'97 Black F150 XLT ORP 4X4 Reg Cab/LB
4.6L/auto/3.55 LS/power EVERYTHING,
nerf bars, 17" wheels, fog lights, trailer hitch w/electrical connector, front tow hooks, bed rail caps,
6 CD changer, lumbar support & 3 cow license plates - so far!

 

Hey truckluver, What color is that pin stripe on your truck? Sounds like mine (blue over gold over blue) Dennis

------------------
'98 White Super Cab 4X4 Lariat

WustaMass, Where we pahk ah cahs!

 

Y2K,
I have to agree with an earlier post here. Since your dealer is obviously not going to work with you, or care for that matter, then you should just give them the keys and leave it on their lot. Cut your losses now before you sink any more of YOUR hard earned money into THEIR truck. That's the key word. It's their truck. Let them deal with all the problems. I think you've been more than patient with them, and I understand your frustration with the whole mess. But you've got to get out for your own sanity. As everyone has seen here before, every manufacturer is going to build a lemon every so often, but your shouldn't have to just accept it because the dealer or the manufacturer say it's normal and it's a lease vehicle. BS!!!! I know you like Fords or you wouldn't have put up with it this long. Just give it up and go to another Ford dealer.

Hang in there Y2K, we're all here for you....

 

I too have had nothing but trouble from Lincoln and Ford Dealerships. I bought a 2000 Supercab that had similar problems but waited until I had a nice list to have them repaired. 1 out of 10 was fixed. I also bought my wife an LS from the same dealership name but different location. Same S@#t different day. They can't find their own butts if they used both hands. I finally had to talk to the owner and told him that I had purchased over 80k worth of vehicles from him and I would hate to buy my next two somewhere else. They seemed to want to correct my problems then!!!! We had lost all faith in Ford/Lincoln until we went to another dealership in H'ville AL. Ray Pearman was the best and fixing my LS and in great time. They were so nice that I will buy a new Mountaineer there. I am sorry for your problems and Ford seems not to care about you once you sign the bottom line. Lemon Law or Dispute Settlement Board should be your ways out. I worked for GM for 10 years and I hate to say this but we took more pride in making our customers happy no matter how much it cost us!!! Shame Ford is not like that. Keep on their butt!!!!

 

Seems like finding a decent dealer is a crap shoot at best. A good dealer will bend over backwards to satisfy a good customer. The trick is finding that dealer.

My heart goes out to all of you with lousy dealers and my hat's off to those of you who have had the patience to go thru all the channels to get satisfaction.

Y2K, I sure hope the lemon law of your state is able to take care of your problems. Good luck.

 

I still don't get it. You have less than two years left on your LEASE. Why not just run the crap out of it? Why do you care about things like the wrong radiator, door cracks, rail dust, chip in paint, etc. when it's not your truck and you dump it back on them in a couple of years?

So it is hard to shift in/out of 4L. If you use 4L then it is bad news. I've used mine twice in 3 years just to make sure it workes. I agree that the squeeks & bumps would be annoying. Didn't they offer to fix the oil leak? Again, why do you care if the engine is replaced (because of an oil leak) if you are giving it back in two years?

I wish they would just give you $4,000 in assistance.

 

btr, the reason that I care about all of this stuff is because I'm paying for a truck that is supposed to be new and free (relatively) of problems. That's why I initially chose a lease instead of purchasing. A new vehicle every three years without paying the high cost of one. I need a new reliable vehicle for my job amongst other things.

The reason that I'm so pissed off is because in the 13 months I've had the truck, I've had it in the shop for repairs 9 times, not including routine maintenance. That is clearly not what I want, and not what I am paying for!! I certainly do not want to put up with this ongoing BS for another 2 years, while shelling out the kind of money that I am paying.

As you said, it's just a LEASE so I don't see their reluctance to take it back. I don't want a rusty looking truck, WOULD YOU? My beef with the radiator is that I'm not getting what I paid for, I paid for a truck that was supposed to have heavy duty cooling which it does not. Sure, they offered to fix the truck, and I may have to have that done while I resolve this matter because I'm starting to get oil drops on the driveway.

But I can pretty much plan on having the truck in for yet another week to get all of this done, bringing my total out of service time to over 4 weeks! And from what I've read about the 4.6L oil leak, I can expect another in 15k miles or so. These are my beefs. Would you put up with it in my shoes?

 

Un-f*cking-believable!! The regional customer service manager contacted me an hour ago after talking to the dealership owner. Their final offer; $2000 of factory assistance, $2,500 of my own money and they'd put me into a comparably equipped 2001. WTF kind of offer is that??

Let me explain... In the 13 months I've owned the truck I'd given Ford a total of about $10,000, with a $5,500 down payment being used initially to reduce monthly payments (Capitalized Cost Reduction). I had originally asked for $5,000 in assistance, but was willing to take a minimum of $4,000.

I look at it this way, my $5,500 was to reduce my payments over the course of the 3-year lease, so by rights that should have been pro-rated. i.e. $5,500 / 3 = $1833.34/year. Since I've got 2 years left on the least that equates to $3,666.67 that I felt that I should have received back from my initial down payment, hence my willingness to accept $4,000.

And the jerk regional CSM I talked to basically told me to either take it or leave it and sue, but that I probably wouldn't get anything. I don't have any of his information here at the office, but believe me when I get home I will post his name, and office number and address for anyone who wants to bitch to Ford!

At this point I think I'm dead in the water and an attorney is my only option. Yes I've though about walking in and throwing the keys on the table and telling them to get lost, but I really feel that I deserve at least part of my capitalized cost reduction back.

Thanks guys for all of your responses, this is why I really love this site!

------------------
2000 F-150 XLT *LEMON*.

Lemon: Rail Dust, Wrong Radiator, Defective Transfer Case, Oil Leak by Torque Convertor, Intermittant Air Bag MIL, Popping Rear Window, Clunking/Creaking RF Wheel, Dealer-Installed Bug Shield Damaged Grill, and Squeaky Seat Belt.

Ford is giving me a run-around trying to fix ths truck!!!

Truck: Reg Cab/Long Box, Styleside, Oxford White, Dark Graphite Int., 4x4, 4.6L, 3.55 L/S, Off-Road pkg (Skid Plates, Cab Steps, Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers, LT265/70R17SL), Class III Towing pkg with Heavy Duty Cooling pkg, 4 wheel disk ABS, Overhead Console, Factory In-Dash CD, Remote Keyless Entry, and Sliding Rear Window.

Mods: Superchip, Cabin Air Filtration, Ventvisors, Ford Bug Deflector, Ford Bedliner.

2000 Polaris Sportsman 500, Camo Green, 4x4, 499cc 4-stroke, independent suspension, shaft drive, 4 wheel disc brakes, etc.

 

Y2K,

First of all, calm down a little. I know this is frustrating. My Explorer deal took about 8 months. what is gonna get you outta this mess is your patience and willingness to accept another Ford. Find the largest volume dealer in your area. Get friendly with a salesman. Look at their trucks and explain your situation. The district people have nothing to do with the buyback assistance. There is an office in Detroit that oversees this process. Structure the deal to where you absolutely have to have the assistance to buy a replacement truck. If we could get $5K assistance on a 98 Explorer with 44150 miles on it, then you should be able to get the same thing on your truck. Tell them the truck stalled in intersections and that you know longer feel safe driving it. Tell them that you know you are entitled to much more with the lemon law but you would like to give Ford another chance. I even told my dealer that I would have lemons painted on the Explorer and park it at the commercial property my stepfather owns that is right next door to the dealership. Research the info on NY state lemon laws and tell them you have researched it. Be patient and be nice. You will prevail one way or the other.

If you would like, I will call my salesman and ask him if his dealership is affiliated with any in NY. If so, go to it. It is absolutely the best dealership experience I've had.

 

I don't think Ford sucks.....just my opinion...MEEK

------------------
1997 Black 4x4 F-150 XLT 4.6L 285/75/16 Bridgestone Dueler A/T's Eagle Alloy Wheels, K&N Airfilter, Flowmaster Exhaust, Dual tips off of one pipe. Nerf Bars, Brush guard, 2 Ralley Lights, Sony X-plod head unit, Jensen 500 watt amp, Sony X-Plod 10" Sub

sooner or later: a lift and bigger mud terrain tires
meek47@f150driver.com

 

I side completely with Y2K. We wouldn't accept this kind of inferior product in ANYTHING else we'd buy! I wouldn't want a new dress with rips or stains in it, nor would I be happy with a refrigerator that didn't keep food cold!
I agree that the key weapon here will be doing research on his rights & patience. Finding another dealer may be a simple fix - I'd try that too. I can understand his frustration though & given the truck's history, it's a lemon - pure & simple.
Not having an M.B.A. I don't understand how ANY company would try to do anything less than satisfy it's customers! To me, if I were Ford, I'd want every lemon yanked off the street immediately so as not to advertise the defects. That's how I would run a company - guess I wouldn't make a good CEO. That's okay - I don't aspire to becoming 1 anyhow!
Keep us posted Y2K & good luck! You'll win in the end!

------------------

www.andthensometoo.com/owners/cowlady
Love my truck & PROUD of it! If you can't beat 'em, you're NOT driving a FORD!
Shovies PROVE that FORD'S are #1!!
'97 Black F150 XLT ORP 4X4 Reg Cab/LB
4.6L/auto/3.55 LS/power EVERYTHING,
nerf bars, 17" wheels, fog lights, trailer hitch w/electrical connector, front tow hooks, bed rail caps,
6 CD changer, lumbar support & 3 cow license plates - so far!

 

Y2K,

I can see why you're pissed. Think about this and maybe you'll come up with a differnt approach. First of all, you're leasing so all of the money you've put into it by way of CAP reduction and payments have really had nothing to do with the cost of the. You are paying for the USE of the vehicle as deemed by the original selling price that the lease company paid for it (yes, even if it's Ford Credit, they're a seperate party and they bought it from Ford Motor to turn around and essentially "rent" it to you)), the residual (what it's projected value at the end of the lease is) and the lease rate you're paying.

My point (and it may pan out to be pointless) go to the Lease company. They own it, and will have the burdon of disposing of it (or if they catch up to the industy, re-marketing it) when the lease is up. So they are VERY much concerned with what it will be worth when they get it back. They planned on it being worth X amount so they could dispose of it at that time. Look at Chysler right now. They're eating billions because in order to lease a lot of vehicles a few years ago (which did give them a shot in the arm) they are now getting those vehicles back and the residual (what they expected they would be worth now) is much higher than what the real value is, so they are taking huge losses. High level Exec's have even lost their jobs over it.

If you can show that the truck in it's condition is worth less than what it should in acceptable condition, the lease company might just step up and help you put pressure on Ford to fix it, or replace it within reason. Also remember, to a dealer, a retail purchase or lease doesn't matter. They make what they make on the vehicle as one revenue source, then the financing is another revenue source they get a cut of. Once you're truck was delivered, they were done with it. They of course are going to try to profit from any other transaction you discuss with them. They are afterall, somewhat an independant business, in business to be profitable. Of course, how they do business greatly effects how they'll do in business. Meaning, it's there choice whether they want to try to earn your loyalty as a customer by doing what's reasonably right. Maybe another dealer would actually be concerned about bulding a loyal customer base and WOULD help you out. In most cases, the dealer may only be able to act as your agent and represent your interest with Ford though.

Keep in mind, each state has different laws around vehicle leases so you might even have some help there. I would HIGHLY encourage you to learn about your states laws and maybe protection for you.

Good luck with it though. I'm have complete empathy for you 'cause I know this is a pain in the a$$.

::UPDATE::
I just read your post in engines about the news spot. That's great however, it's pretty sad that all the *warm and fuzzy* and cooperation is masking the fact that the problem was addressed and respolved "the right way" to start with.

I hope you don't get all *warm and fuzzy* with the dealer now if they resolve it. Make sure they know that YOU know the reason they're doing it is only because the media got a hold of it and if they don't respond favorably, it could damage their business greatly; as if they aren't damaging it already, just slower.
------------------
2000 EDDIE BAUER EXPEDITION 4x2

• Estate Green
• 5.4 ltr
• 3:55 LS rear
• Superchip!
• Airaid FIPK
• Gibson S/S Swept Side Cat Back Exhaust
• Hellwig Rear Anti-Sway Bar
• Energy Suspension Polyurethane Front Anti-Sway Bar Bushings
• Edelbrock Performer IAS Shocks
• Mobil 1
• Xenon Super White Head and Driving Lights
• Tow Package
• Rear Load Leveling
• Moonroof
• Century Child Seat!

-->Follow Me...<--

[This message has been edited by FamilyRide (edited 05-11-2001).]

 

Sue. Period. Despite the overburdening of our system by frivolous suits, sometimes they are warranted. Pursue legal action. I am about to. And having made that decision, I am happy. Because it was the only way to bring my blood pressure down / make me quit fretting over all my disappointments. Not just with the truck -- but also with the attitudes and lies I've faced. Now? It's out of my hands. And I hope they pay. Even if my lawyer gets the money.