Let them sink or float, the little 3…
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: The volunteer state (nuttin changed since 1864!!)
theres been so much said about the auto industry theres not too much more that can be said....... but ill try anyway, go ahead and let the big3 shut down........ yes honda/toyota may make the best gas cars if your a hippie or a congressional fruitloop,..... but ask the rest of america with real jobs where the best trucks are at..... go ahead and let the big 3 sink, then wonder why no real industrial work is getting done, lol, maybe the messiah has a solution for that one too lmao
Certified Goat Breeder
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 19
From: the moral high ground
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 1
From: Fort Worth, Texas
I'd like to think if everyone bought american, the big three would have more money and opportunites to develop new technologies. More americans would have jobs too. There would be no need for a bailout. Our country has become too dependant upon other countries.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: Manitoba, Canada
Probably made by a owner of a foreign car.
I'd like to think if everyone bought american, the big three would have more money and opportunites to develop new technologies. More americans would have jobs too. There would be no need for a bailout. Our country has become too dependant upon other countries.
I'd like to think if everyone bought american, the big three would have more money and opportunites to develop new technologies. More americans would have jobs too. There would be no need for a bailout. Our country has become too dependant upon other countries.
The do have the "lined pockets" technology down to a "T" though....
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 0
From: Seabrook,NH
Last edited by Norm; Dec 9, 2008 at 11:13 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
From: NH
builtyourstoo,
First you need to re-read my post I was not talking about “skilled” labor and actually pointed that out. I am speaking about “assemblers” in assembly line work. That work is a no-brainer minimum wage job that just about anyone can do since it requires absolutely no “real” skills.
Rather people do it over and over and its “mentally” hard or frustrating is not the point, the point is anyone can do it and those who get “mentally” tired or drained from that work can always quit and another 10 people will be ready to take over and do it. Pay, for an assembler has nothing to do with quality. Quality should be the same if your paying someone $7 an hour or $70 an hour because it’s all layed out with no decision to make, no engineering questions to be answered by the worker. It’ simple work, like taking out the trash.
You see this is the problem for the little 3 and all or most will be out of business soon not just because management can’t manage and make the correct decisions but also because many of the workers think they are entitled to things they are not entitled to such as very high pay and about every benefit under the sun. They either give up a lot or lose it all.
It’s not about buying “American” made but rather buying a good quality product that the CUSTOMER wants. If it’s not American made then oh well that’s life. I do NOT and NEVER will buy something simply because it’s made in America by Americans because that would be devastating to the American economy as a whole in the long run. Why, because when you continue to purchase subpar products, products that don’t really meet your needs then companies continue to produce that subpar product until one day the majority of Americans say no. Then you have major problems because businesses such as the little 3 can’t shift fast enough to make what is really wanted.
The little 3 have had tons of cash for years, for decades to get it right and have failed because like many “American” businesses they are ran poorly and only for the very short term. There is very little if any LONG term planning or outlooks like decades ago. Had the little 3 had any brains they would have seen this oil crunch coming well before it did leaving them standing there with few to no products to sale to the American public.
The little 3’s problem is due to 2 things and 2 things only, one **** poor management, and two, over paid work force. The oil crunch, credit crunch had nothing to do with what’s going on now other then shine the bright light on decades of stupidity by the little 3. I honestly hope they fail because I believe in the long run it’s a great opportunity for American businesses to understand the basic principles of running a business, plan for the long run and pay and treat your employees fairly, not over pay them and give them more benefits then can be paid for…
While the UAW has done an outstanding job for their members they have also done an outstanding job of insuring they have NO job security and benefited their members right out of a job…
It’s sad, but its life, the American economy will move right along, with no problems (long term) if all the little 3 fail. There will be no depression or other BS that has been spouted, it just business and the voids will be filled with businesses that have solid management and a great work force already in place…
First you need to re-read my post I was not talking about “skilled” labor and actually pointed that out. I am speaking about “assemblers” in assembly line work. That work is a no-brainer minimum wage job that just about anyone can do since it requires absolutely no “real” skills.
Rather people do it over and over and its “mentally” hard or frustrating is not the point, the point is anyone can do it and those who get “mentally” tired or drained from that work can always quit and another 10 people will be ready to take over and do it. Pay, for an assembler has nothing to do with quality. Quality should be the same if your paying someone $7 an hour or $70 an hour because it’s all layed out with no decision to make, no engineering questions to be answered by the worker. It’ simple work, like taking out the trash.
You see this is the problem for the little 3 and all or most will be out of business soon not just because management can’t manage and make the correct decisions but also because many of the workers think they are entitled to things they are not entitled to such as very high pay and about every benefit under the sun. They either give up a lot or lose it all.
It’s not about buying “American” made but rather buying a good quality product that the CUSTOMER wants. If it’s not American made then oh well that’s life. I do NOT and NEVER will buy something simply because it’s made in America by Americans because that would be devastating to the American economy as a whole in the long run. Why, because when you continue to purchase subpar products, products that don’t really meet your needs then companies continue to produce that subpar product until one day the majority of Americans say no. Then you have major problems because businesses such as the little 3 can’t shift fast enough to make what is really wanted.
The little 3 have had tons of cash for years, for decades to get it right and have failed because like many “American” businesses they are ran poorly and only for the very short term. There is very little if any LONG term planning or outlooks like decades ago. Had the little 3 had any brains they would have seen this oil crunch coming well before it did leaving them standing there with few to no products to sale to the American public.
The little 3’s problem is due to 2 things and 2 things only, one **** poor management, and two, over paid work force. The oil crunch, credit crunch had nothing to do with what’s going on now other then shine the bright light on decades of stupidity by the little 3. I honestly hope they fail because I believe in the long run it’s a great opportunity for American businesses to understand the basic principles of running a business, plan for the long run and pay and treat your employees fairly, not over pay them and give them more benefits then can be paid for…
While the UAW has done an outstanding job for their members they have also done an outstanding job of insuring they have NO job security and benefited their members right out of a job…
It’s sad, but its life, the American economy will move right along, with no problems (long term) if all the little 3 fail. There will be no depression or other BS that has been spouted, it just business and the voids will be filled with businesses that have solid management and a great work force already in place…
Certified Goat Breeder
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 19
From: the moral high ground
Hi Burt. 
You must have missed me on C-SPAN.
I was shopping for a Goat Herders bailout as this economy has devastated us too.
Senator: "So, did you fly a corporate jet here?"
Me: "No sir, I rode a goat."
Senator: "You rode a goat all the way to DC?"
Me: [hat in hand] "Yes sir."
Senator: "Give this man twice whatever he asked for."
You must have missed me on C-SPAN.
I was shopping for a Goat Herders bailout as this economy has devastated us too.
Senator: "So, did you fly a corporate jet here?"
Me: "No sir, I rode a goat."
Senator: "You rode a goat all the way to DC?"
Me: [hat in hand] "Yes sir."
Senator: "Give this man twice whatever he asked for."
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 82
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Hi Burt.
You must have missed me on C-SPAN.
I was shopping for a Goat Herders bailout as this economy has devastated us too.
Senator: "So, did you fly a corporate jet here?"
Me: "No sir, I rode a goat."
Senator: "You rode a goat all the way to DC?"
Me: [hat in hand] "Yes sir."
Senator: "Give this man twice whatever he asked for."
You must have missed me on C-SPAN.
I was shopping for a Goat Herders bailout as this economy has devastated us too.
Senator: "So, did you fly a corporate jet here?"
Me: "No sir, I rode a goat."
Senator: "You rode a goat all the way to DC?"
Me: [hat in hand] "Yes sir."
Senator: "Give this man twice whatever he asked for."
__________________
Jim
Jim
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 0
From: Seabrook,NH
builtyourstoo,
First you need to re-read my post I was not talking about “skilled” labor and actually pointed that out. I am speaking about “assemblers” in assembly line work. That work is a no-brainer minimum wage job that just about anyone can do since it requires absolutely no “real” skills.
Rather people do it over and over and its “mentally” hard or frustrating is not the point, the point is anyone can do it and those who get “mentally” tired or drained from that work can always quit and another 10 people will be ready to take over and do it. Pay, for an assembler has nothing to do with quality. Quality should be the same if your paying someone $7 an hour or $70 an hour because it’s all layed out with no decision to make, no engineering questions to be answered by the worker. It’ simple work, like taking out the trash.
You see this is the problem for the little 3 and all or most will be out of business soon not just because management can’t manage and make the correct decisions but also because many of the workers think they are entitled to things they are not entitled to such as very high pay and about every benefit under the sun. They either give up a lot or lose it all.
It’s not about buying “American” made but rather buying a good quality product that the CUSTOMER wants. If it’s not American made then oh well that’s life. I do NOT and NEVER will buy something simply because it’s made in America by Americans because that would be devastating to the American economy as a whole in the long run. Why, because when you continue to purchase subpar products, products that don’t really meet your needs then companies continue to produce that subpar product until one day the majority of Americans say no. Then you have major problems because businesses such as the little 3 can’t shift fast enough to make what is really wanted.
The little 3 have had tons of cash for years, for decades to get it right and have failed because like many “American” businesses they are ran poorly and only for the very short term. There is very little if any LONG term planning or outlooks like decades ago. Had the little 3 had any brains they would have seen this oil crunch coming well before it did leaving them standing there with few to no products to sale to the American public.
The little 3’s problem is due to 2 things and 2 things only, one **** poor management, and two, over paid work force. The oil crunch, credit crunch had nothing to do with what’s going on now other then shine the bright light on decades of stupidity by the little 3. I honestly hope they fail because I believe in the long run it’s a great opportunity for American businesses to understand the basic principles of running a business, plan for the long run and pay and treat your employees fairly, not over pay them and give them more benefits then can be paid for…
While the UAW has done an outstanding job for their members they have also done an outstanding job of insuring they have NO job security and benefited their members right out of a job…
It’s sad, but its life, the American economy will move right along, with no problems (long term) if all the little 3 fail. There will be no depression or other BS that has been spouted, it just business and the voids will be filled with businesses that have solid management and a great work force already in place…
First you need to re-read my post I was not talking about “skilled” labor and actually pointed that out. I am speaking about “assemblers” in assembly line work. That work is a no-brainer minimum wage job that just about anyone can do since it requires absolutely no “real” skills.
Rather people do it over and over and its “mentally” hard or frustrating is not the point, the point is anyone can do it and those who get “mentally” tired or drained from that work can always quit and another 10 people will be ready to take over and do it. Pay, for an assembler has nothing to do with quality. Quality should be the same if your paying someone $7 an hour or $70 an hour because it’s all layed out with no decision to make, no engineering questions to be answered by the worker. It’ simple work, like taking out the trash.
You see this is the problem for the little 3 and all or most will be out of business soon not just because management can’t manage and make the correct decisions but also because many of the workers think they are entitled to things they are not entitled to such as very high pay and about every benefit under the sun. They either give up a lot or lose it all.
It’s not about buying “American” made but rather buying a good quality product that the CUSTOMER wants. If it’s not American made then oh well that’s life. I do NOT and NEVER will buy something simply because it’s made in America by Americans because that would be devastating to the American economy as a whole in the long run. Why, because when you continue to purchase subpar products, products that don’t really meet your needs then companies continue to produce that subpar product until one day the majority of Americans say no. Then you have major problems because businesses such as the little 3 can’t shift fast enough to make what is really wanted.
The little 3 have had tons of cash for years, for decades to get it right and have failed because like many “American” businesses they are ran poorly and only for the very short term. There is very little if any LONG term planning or outlooks like decades ago. Had the little 3 had any brains they would have seen this oil crunch coming well before it did leaving them standing there with few to no products to sale to the American public.
The little 3’s problem is due to 2 things and 2 things only, one **** poor management, and two, over paid work force. The oil crunch, credit crunch had nothing to do with what’s going on now other then shine the bright light on decades of stupidity by the little 3. I honestly hope they fail because I believe in the long run it’s a great opportunity for American businesses to understand the basic principles of running a business, plan for the long run and pay and treat your employees fairly, not over pay them and give them more benefits then can be paid for…
While the UAW has done an outstanding job for their members they have also done an outstanding job of insuring they have NO job security and benefited their members right out of a job…
It’s sad, but its life, the American economy will move right along, with no problems (long term) if all the little 3 fail. There will be no depression or other BS that has been spouted, it just business and the voids will be filled with businesses that have solid management and a great work force already in place…
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: Columbia Station, Ohio
While I do not like the idea of a bail out, one thing does concern me...if the corporations go belly-up as you wish them to, and many of you are against the assemblers (let them eat cake, I say!) there is another issue that you forget---
What of the smaller guys---the small companies that manufacture and supply parts to the Big 3? The small companies, most likely non-union (you all are for that), that will become vacant faster than one can say "bail out" and will not be able to afford to ask for a piece of the bail out pie.
Yep, you don't like union and that is what I see from you, but what of the smaller shops that make all the parts---the NON-UNION SHOPS that depend on Ford, GM, and Chrysler to order their parts? What would you like to see happen to them? They are probably, ironically, operating more efficiently and on budget than the Big 3, but they, too, will implode.
Tim C.
What of the smaller guys---the small companies that manufacture and supply parts to the Big 3? The small companies, most likely non-union (you all are for that), that will become vacant faster than one can say "bail out" and will not be able to afford to ask for a piece of the bail out pie.
Yep, you don't like union and that is what I see from you, but what of the smaller shops that make all the parts---the NON-UNION SHOPS that depend on Ford, GM, and Chrysler to order their parts? What would you like to see happen to them? They are probably, ironically, operating more efficiently and on budget than the Big 3, but they, too, will implode.
Tim C.
Last edited by referee54; Dec 9, 2008 at 04:18 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,858
Likes: 0
From: Rohnert Park, CA
Let 'em crash and burn, and pick themselves back up. A loan from the government is just a band-aid for a chainsaw wound. They got themselves into this mess, they can get themselves out of it. It'll be a long and hard road, and a lot of people are gonna lose their jobs over it, but thus is life. In the end, they'll all be stronger and better than they ever were.
Drives me crazy, these POS CEO's coming and asking for a hand out. Then, when asked "why" they use the "millions of jobs would be lost ! " scare tactic. Its BS. Looks at the perfect examples of **** poor companies who ran themselves into the ground (Continetal, for simple example). They did a horrible job at running the company, had to file for bankruptcy. A new management stepped it, and reorganized the entire company, including pay structure and anything else that costs even a dime. They went line by line reorganizing everything. Now the company is running better then ever (didn't go anywhere, didn't magically vanish).
In no way does bankruptcy require you to give up and sit down.
Smaller guys being hurt ? Why ? If Mercedes went belly up, no one would want to take their car to a bankrupt dealership (or at least an increased number of people). That means more customers would begin to trickle into our shop, and other small independants. The cars would all continue to be produced, so the aftermarket wouldn't be affected by it, at least not nearly as big as some make it out to be (namely the Big three making it sound like the country as we know it would collapse without them).
And yes, I agree Unions are a major part of the problems we are seeing across the board. Could be the biggest issue, or hardest to overcome. Hopefully someday Unions will be ancient tools of the past.
Why would "non union" workers be hurt ?? Why would Ford just stop making vehicles ? Why wouldn't they follow the model set by MANY American businesses that have started, failed, and come back better then ever ??
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
From: NH
While I do not like the idea of a bail out, one thing does concern me...if the corporations go belly-up as you wish them to, and many of you are against the assemblers (let them eat cake, I say!) there is another issue that you forget---
What of the smaller guys---the small companies that manufacture and supply parts to the Big 3? The small companies, most likely non-union (you all are for that), that will become vacant faster than one can say "bail out" and will not be able to afford to ask for a piece of the bail out pie.
Yep, you don't like union and that is what I see from you, but what of the smaller shops that make all the parts---the NON-UNION SHOPS that depend on Ford, GM, and Chrysler to order their parts? What would you like to see happen to them? They are probably, ironically, operating more efficiently and on budget than the Big 3, but they, too, will implode.
Tim C.
What of the smaller guys---the small companies that manufacture and supply parts to the Big 3? The small companies, most likely non-union (you all are for that), that will become vacant faster than one can say "bail out" and will not be able to afford to ask for a piece of the bail out pie.
Yep, you don't like union and that is what I see from you, but what of the smaller shops that make all the parts---the NON-UNION SHOPS that depend on Ford, GM, and Chrysler to order their parts? What would you like to see happen to them? They are probably, ironically, operating more efficiently and on budget than the Big 3, but they, too, will implode.
Tim C.
Why, well because as I stated earlier, there would be some voids left behind as far as demand for what the little 3 produce. Those voids would be filled by the other successful auto manufactures like Toyota etc. Therefore those same suppliers, for the most part, would continue to produce parts, thus keeping their jobs…
It’s not as if the little 3 go under that those who purchase their product will no longer purchase automobiles, just will not happen, we, you and I will continue to purchase vehicles as we normally do but just from a different supplier.
This is why the scare tactics of ”millions will lose their jobs and we will go into a depression’ is complete nonsense…
We, the American economy do NOT need any particular business, such as the little 3 to survive in order to prosper and grow our economy, to grow jobs, to make America great. What we do need to prosper and grow our economy, jobs and make America great are great companies who understand how to conduct business “successfully”…
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
That’s a great point and I thought I addressed it, but not specifically. I honestly believe the small guy, small business will NOT get hurt, not long term anyway…
Why, well because as I stated earlier, there would be some voids left behind as far as demand for what the little 3 produce. Those voids would be filled by the other successful auto manufactures like Toyota etc. Therefore those same suppliers, for the most part, would continue to produce parts, thus keeping their jobs…
It’s not as if the little 3 go under that those who purchase their product will no longer purchase automobiles, just will not happen, we, you and I will continue to purchase vehicles as we normally do but just from a different supplier.
This is why the scare tactics of ”millions will lose their jobs and we will go into a depression’ is complete nonsense…
We, the American economy do NOT need any particular business, such as the little 3 to survive in order to prosper and grow our economy, to grow jobs, to make America great. What we do need to prosper and grow our economy, jobs and make America great are great companies who understand how to conduct business “successfully”…
Why, well because as I stated earlier, there would be some voids left behind as far as demand for what the little 3 produce. Those voids would be filled by the other successful auto manufactures like Toyota etc. Therefore those same suppliers, for the most part, would continue to produce parts, thus keeping their jobs…
It’s not as if the little 3 go under that those who purchase their product will no longer purchase automobiles, just will not happen, we, you and I will continue to purchase vehicles as we normally do but just from a different supplier.
This is why the scare tactics of ”millions will lose their jobs and we will go into a depression’ is complete nonsense…
We, the American economy do NOT need any particular business, such as the little 3 to survive in order to prosper and grow our economy, to grow jobs, to make America great. What we do need to prosper and grow our economy, jobs and make America great are great companies who understand how to conduct business “successfully”…