It is a bit silly to call this "Bush's war." It is like people forget what the official US policy in Iraq was prior to President Bush taking office. Nobody remembers what was happening in Iraq in 1998 (I have friends were massed on the border), 1999 (I was off the coast of Iraq), and continuing up until we invaded. People also seem to forget how many government leaders, foreign and domestic, whole-heartedly endorsed the idea that Hussein did have WMDs. How did Bush trick all those people when he was the governor of Texas?

Grim

 

Do not ever underestimate the power of the govenor of Texas!

People tend to buy into whatever they want to believe.

 

It was something i noticed in the search. I'm having trouble locating what I'm looking for. I haven't read it in quite some time. I'll find it.

 

Here is another report that leads into the story. I found it along my new search. I can't believe I'm doing this again.
The only reason I felt like posting my origional statment is because I had a maedical procedure yesterday and was still high as hell when I read the thread. I swore to myself once I'd never get involved in the discusion again.

http://www.historycommons.org/entity...=ronald_reagan is the source of this story.

 

Actually, you're right; I probably should call it Cheney's war, but Bush made the final decisions.

Yes, we were all over that country during the 1990's. I have a friend that did flyovers in their no-fly zone. We had a firm grip on Iraq, which is why it astounds me that they convinced people that we needed to invade. As far as WMD's, the only source we had was a spy that was interrogated in Egypt, and turned out to have been lying about everything he said. All our other sources, including the CIA and the Pentagon, said there were no WMD's.

Many people do forget a lot of things. I've been saying the same things for almost 4 years now, and so far I haven't been wrong. There was a really good documentary this year, finally, that put it all together nicely. If you really want to know what happened, I highly recommend watching it. It's all facts, not propaganda, so be forewarned. It was done by Frontline, and includes interviews with Richard Armitage, John Ashcroft, **** Cheney, Richard Clarke, Colin Powel, Condi Rice, Tom Ridge, Paul Wolfowitz, John Yoo, and about 400 others that were directly involved. It's the most thorough accounting of what happened I've seen anywhere.

Info


Man, I wish it was that easy for me! For years I really tried to believe in Bush, but it just couldn't happen.

 

How about Bill Clinton's war, or Hillary's war, or all the other Senators that voted for it? You blame Bush and/or Cheney for the actions of hundreds. That makes no sense. If you want to blame Bush, blame him for what he was completely responsible for; i.e. the aftermath of the initial invasion.

The idea that we had a "firm grip" on Iraq simply isn't true. Oil-for-food was corrupt and collapsing. Hussein was clearly in violation of NUMEROUS UN resolutions and had suffered no consequence. Containment of Hussein in Iraq had failed.

I don't know what the Pentagon said, but you're wrong about the CIA. Tenet (then-director of the CIA, appointed by Clinton) said it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMDs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jun3.html

I've seen that. It is actually a good documentary. However, you say you haven't been wrong. You were wrong at least twice in the paragraphs above (once about Hussein being contained and the second about the CIA saying there were no WMDs). I'll give you "firm grip" as a matter of your opinion, but you're absolutely wrong about the CIA telling Bush there were no WMDs.

Grim

 

Tenet did say that, and he stood by it right up until they blamed him, but there were other sources in the CIA who disputed what he had to say. If you'll recall from the documentary, they had everyone looking everywhere for any possible way to justify invading Iraq, either by linking Saddam to Al Qeada, or confirming he had WMD's. No one could find anything, yet Tenet said in a private meeting that it was a slam dunk. He never had any proof, and they never asked to see any. The only thing that Tenet was going on were claims from a prisoner they sent to Egypt to be tortured, and everything he told them was lies. Others in the CIA that were trying to find this proof couldn't, and concluded there were no WMD's. It was Joe Wilson, husband of CIA agent Valerie Plame, that confirmed that the claims of Saddam trying to get yellowcake from Africa were false.

 

Also, if you'll recall from the documentary, while everyone else was telling Bush not to invade, Cheney talked him into it, and also convinced him to take control away from the military, and gave it to his neo-con buddy Rumsfeld. One of Bush's attorney's (supposedly at the direction of Cheney) slipped a line into a Bill at the last minute that gave Bush the power to go to war without the approval of Congress, so in truth, their votes were meaningless anyway.

 

I don't know if ther were any wmd's there, but the Iraqies had months to clean everything. They did know we were coming.

 

I beg to differ.

I don't think that Roosevelt or Truman could have had the same effect they did on todays society. There was honor back then. People believed in their country and their leaders. Today people are so smart they can second guess every decision the president makes. There is no honor. The people aren't the same. This discussion proves that.

If people were the same we would be talking about defeating radical terrorists and not about electing an unqualified, charismatic figure.

We need to be asked to make sacrifices? Why don't people see a problem with that? If there are people in this county, and on these boards, who know so much more than our president and his administration, why on Earth would people need to be asked to do what is necessary for our country to meet it's objectives?

Have we forgotten already? "Ask what you can do for your country".

 

Our society is different and it is because parents aren't raising their children with respect and honor. That is cornball in todays society.
Why. All the forms of medea and communication.
Beaver Cleaver seems to be the nerd.

Damn I sound like my Grandfather