There are good union workers, the majority of them I know, who work an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. I have seen slackers in every job I've worked, union job or not. They are everywhere. It's not like only slackers work union jobs. It's a bad rap.

 

I don't think anyone is slaming on the union workers. We are slaming on the union. If you need a job, and can get a good paying union job or mcdonalds.. which would you take? The union workers end up being victoms of there success. Can't really blame them. But every union I have belonged to has silly rules that keep good workers down and protect slackers. That and my union dues go to support democrats. That REALLY chaps me.

 

Chaps me too.

 

Just curious what more you think we should give. We have already agreed to large pay cuts, the union took over the retirees health care, gave up pay raises for the last 6 years, we pay more for our healthcare, we have weeded out almost all of the problem employees, etc. What about all the problems from the management side. We still have supervisors that aren't assigned to any area. We have vehicle designers that don't know how to design a car people want. We need more fuel efficient cars (ex. the new Fiesta), but they won't bring it here until 2010 (too late in my opinion). The Escape hybrid has been out for what 3+ years and it is still the only hybrid we have. Management relied on trucks and SUV's for way tooooo long. The dealerships are still horrible to deal with.

If you have never worked on a real assembly line you have no idea how much the union is needed and I am not a big union supporter by any means. I do see the problems they create but it is a lot different then it was just 2 years ago. The union told all the problem employees they need to find another line of work and it has happened. Our plant is a lot more efficient today.

Can anyone here tell me that they actually put in 8 hours of work in an 8 hour day? I do. I cannot get up and go to the bathroom whenever I want. I cannot go get a cup of coffee or soda whenever I want. I cannot go visit with a co-worker for 10-15 minutes. I cannot get on a computer and surf the web for hours a day. I cannot chat on the phone to family or friends during my workday. I cannot go outside and have a smoke 2,3,4 times a day for 10 minutes a shot. I get a new job every 60 seconds and have 60 seconds to do my work. The days of the fat old lazy autoworker ended a long time ago. Yes, there are still some but like Stealth said, you find those people in any line of work.

 

It is my belief there are far far more company mismanagement issues than there are union worker issues.

 

I'm not for todays Unions. there was a time when greed made unions nessesary. Deplorable working conditions and other problems that aren't just rolling off the top of my head at the momment. This has to change someday. We have to be leaders in this change or we will be the third world country.
The greed is now both Union and management.
We don'thave to lower our standards to bring the rest of the world up to our standard. I feel when you work for your salary you should give what you are being paid to do. Now the problem seems to be lazyness.

 

Didn't mean to hurt feelings. Your on the inside and you know more than I do. There are plenty of problems to go around. But the fact remains that the wages toy pays it's employees (including the benifit package) is still a lot lower than the big three. It is hard in this market to compete with those costs. After reading your post, I am inclined to think the government should get involved and make it more fair somehow. Wow.. I can't believe I just said that... weather it is tariffs on the japanese companies or what.. it isn't fair for them to come here and not have the inherent costs the big three have.

 

Didn't hurt my feelings. It just gets old hearing all the blame placed on the UAW when people don't know about concessions we have given. People think the union just takes and takes but it is never reported what the union has given back or given up. People never look at the other factors involved ( Japan and the Yen, trade deficit, healthcare expenses etc.)


BTW, the wages at a Toyota plant are not that much lower than ours.

 

But I do believe that the legacy costs of the domestics are killing them. I don't think toy has the benifit packages that the big three have. I know it must really suck changing your lifestyle from what your used to with pay cuts and all.

 

Just shows you how low Toyota will stoop when it comes to its blue collar workers. Less pay and less benefits. Good companies take care of and appreciate their employees with good pay and benefits, union or not.

 

come from being in business for over 100 years. Only way to avoid them would be to get rid of employees before you incur that cost. That is a situation where unions can protect workers. I have heard that is what Toyota is doing at their plants in the south but not sure if that is the case. Wouldn't surprise me though.

 

Uhuh.... "Union, building America one brick at a time...very slowly".

Sorry Nav, but it's people like you that make us "rats" pissed off. I am non-union and proud to be. I work many sites alongside union companies, and no bs, I see some of the sorriest washed up excuses for American workers I have EVER seen. Showing to work late, taking all the time in the world to get set up, stopping in the middle of whatever for the precious coffee, lunch and afternoon break (ie, a watermain breaks but hey, it's coffee time), and bailing out early from the site, yet I'm the rat because I work my *** off to get the job done, even if it means working through lunch or break. Apparently I'm a rat cause I make union workers look bad...and if I EVER see propaganda or business cards plastered all over my truck again from the locals, I'll tear them all new ones with my rat teeth!!!

***This may or may not apply to UAW, but on typical construction sites there are no time card punches, no supers walking around for the trades, just foremen and apprentices. I will say I've met alot of good union guys, but the majority of IBEWs and pipefitters and tin knockers I run into are bottom of the bucket...

 

FYI (and I'm not trying to defend the unions) almost any state in the USA would provide significant subsidies to get Ford to put a plant there. Also, the tax system in Brazil is one of the most punitive tax systems in the world.

Grim

 

I'll bet that ryan42680 can tell you that he's put in 8 hours of work in a day. At least. So can I.

I'm a non-union plumber in a very small, family owned, shop and we put in at least 8 hours of work a day. If we finish a job in six hours, we start another. It's actually nice if we get to head home after 8 hours because our day usually ends when the job is done, not when the clock says that we've been working 8 hours. We get dirty, grimey, cut, bruised and burnt just to get a job done. We aren't beholden to a forman, we are beholden to the customer, who is often presant.

We do repairs behind union plumbing contractors and the quality of work is...., well, I'm there to repair it. When we do a job, we have to do all the things that it takes several union contractors to do, and do all of them well. If the customer isn't happy with our work, they get us back to make it right, something that doesn't happen with the union plumbing contractors. We work extra hard to make sure that our customers are happy the first time.

Maybe there are slacker non-union workers. Every day I work with non-union tradesmen who bust their asses so their customer is satisfied that they got a quality job for the price. They put in at least 8 hours of work in an 8 hour day. Many put in 10 hours of work in an 8 hour day.



Back on topic: People should get used to this trend. We are about to elect a president who says he will tax the rich and corporations. Our government will soon be giving corporations, including automakers, the incentive they need to leave this country for good. Taking with them many jobs that people presantly hold here in the ole U.S. of A.

The government doesn't create jobs, union or otherwise. Corporations do. If the corporation can do their business more efficeintly else where, they will.