Is the median income now the same as it was in 1998??
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This is basically what Prompted the Arguement, and I Totally Agree with you.
EVERYTHING is so much more money these days, Especially GAS.
Yet incomes really haven't gone up as much..
My counterpart was trying to imply Incomes had gone Up as much as the cost of living (His income had apparently Tripled, so Everyone Elses must have as well...)
EVERYTHING is so much more money these days, Especially GAS.
Yet incomes really haven't gone up as much..
My counterpart was trying to imply Incomes had gone Up as much as the cost of living (His income had apparently Tripled, so Everyone Elses must have as well...)
"How bout some FACTS. The Average Median Income was around 48k in 1998. It's around 48k TODAY!"
So say all you want "that's what I'm trying to tell him" or "that's what I meant" There's your quote...
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From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
I don't think you will get actual 2008 numbers for another year, but you can probably find a forecast somwhere.
http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/p60-206.pdf
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The reason they use median instead of average is because median is a more reliable indicator of what is happening to the majority, and greatly reduces the impact of what is happening at the extreme high and low ends of the sample.
It is certainly possible for the lowest income people and the highest income people to show an increase, yet have the median remain unchanged.
For example, let's look a the median of these 5 numbers: 1, 3, 5, 1,000,000 and 2,000,000. The median is 5, yet the average is $600,002.
Change the numbers to 3, 4, 5, 2,000,000 and 4,000,000. The median is still 5, but the average has almost doubled to $1,200,002.
Basically, median is the point at which half the sample is higher and half is lower. This is certainly a more valid measurement of changes to a large sample than average (aka mean).
It is certainly possible for the lowest income people and the highest income people to show an increase, yet have the median remain unchanged.
For example, let's look a the median of these 5 numbers: 1, 3, 5, 1,000,000 and 2,000,000. The median is 5, yet the average is $600,002.
Change the numbers to 3, 4, 5, 2,000,000 and 4,000,000. The median is still 5, but the average has almost doubled to $1,200,002.
Basically, median is the point at which half the sample is higher and half is lower. This is certainly a more valid measurement of changes to a large sample than average (aka mean).
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I understand the numbers, median, mode, rise, run... that makes sense to me. I don't agree that the median income in 1998 was 48K. BHibbs is saying that Americans are making the same in 2008 as they were in 1998... of course he won't say that now. He's doing the famous BHibbs back pedal he's so good at when he gets called out.
The Real Median Income WAS 48k in 1998!
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h05.html
Last edited by BHibbs; May 2, 2008 at 12:36 PM.
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From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
------------------Median income-------Mean income
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011---$48,201--$48,201--$66,570--$66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326---47,845---63,344---65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334---47,323---60,466---64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318---47,488---59,067---64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409---47,530---57,852---64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228---48,091---58,208---66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990---49,163---57,135---66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696---49,244---54,737---66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885--48,034--- 51,855---64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011---$48,201--$48,201--$66,570--$66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326---47,845---63,344---65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334---47,323---60,466---64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318---47,488---59,067---64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409---47,530---57,852---64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228---48,091---58,208---66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990---49,163---57,135---66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696---49,244---54,737---66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885--48,034--- 51,855---64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
Last edited by NCSU_05_FX4; May 2, 2008 at 12:49 PM.
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------------------Median income-------Mean income
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011--- $48,201 $48,200--- $66,570--- $66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326--- 47,845 --- 63,344--- 65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334--- 47,323 --- 60,466--- 64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318--- 47,488 --- 59,067--- 64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409 --- 47,530 --- 57,852--- 64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228 ---48,091 --- 58,208--- 66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990 --- 49,163 --- 57,135--- 66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696 --- 49,244 --- 54,737--- 66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885 --- 48,034 --- 51,855--- 64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011--- $48,201 $48,200--- $66,570--- $66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326--- 47,845 --- 63,344--- 65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334--- 47,323 --- 60,466--- 64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318--- 47,488 --- 59,067--- 64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409 --- 47,530 --- 57,852--- 64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228 ---48,091 --- 58,208--- 66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990 --- 49,163 --- 57,135--- 66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696 --- 49,244 --- 54,737--- 66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885 --- 48,034 --- 51,855--- 64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
Is it really MY fault you can't understand what the numbers are telling you and what a Real Median Income Is???
"Current" Dollars is what it Actually Was that year in Dollars with no adjustments putting things into perspective as Dirt Bike Dave Throughly Explained...
Last edited by BHibbs; May 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM.
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From: Joplin MO
------------------Median income-------Mean income
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011---$48,201--$48,201--$66,570--$66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326---47,845---63,344---65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334---47,323---60,466---64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318---47,488---59,067---64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409---47,530---57,852---64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228---48,091---58,208---66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990---49,163---57,135---66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696---49,244---54,737---66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885--48,034--- 51,855---64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
--------Number---Current----2006----Current----- 2006
Year----(thous.)---dollars----dollars---dollars------dollars
2006---116,011---$48,201--$48,201--$66,570--$66,570
2005---114,384--- 46,326---47,845---63,344---65,421
2004---113,343--- 44,334---47,323---60,466---64,542
2003---112,000--- 43,318---47,488---59,067---64,753
2002---111,278--- 42,409---47,530---57,852---64,837
2001---109,297--- 42,228---48,091---58,208---66,290
2000---108,209--- 41,990---49,163---57,135---66,895
1999---106,434--- 40,696---49,244---54,737---66,235
1998---103,874--- 38,885--48,034--- 51,855---64,056
Now if you want to start discussing the value or buying power between the years 1998 and 2006 have at it, but that's a totally separate issue.
- NCSU
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Real Median Income is ALWAY'S represented in the most recent years Dollars. That's why they Use it, to get a good comparison of one year to the next.
Saying it was 38k in 1998 and 48k in 2006 implies Inflation is going Down. Peoples standards of living are Greatly Improving. The cost of living is Decreasing (Substantially!). It's Deceptive! And WRONG.
Please, look up and Read what REAL MEDIAN INCOME Really is, and what it represents...
Saying it was 38k in 1998 and 48k in 2006 implies Inflation is going Down. Peoples standards of living are Greatly Improving. The cost of living is Decreasing (Substantially!). It's Deceptive! And WRONG.
Please, look up and Read what REAL MEDIAN INCOME Really is, and what it represents...
In all honesty, I think you're both idiots for not being able to figure this out. You're both saying the same thing, in two different ways.
If you took all the cash you made in 1998 (assuming you made the median income) you'd have 38,885 one dollar bills. If you did the same thing in 2006 you'd have 48,201 one dollar bills. So, you'd have 9,316 more one dollar bills in 2006 than you would have back in 1998 (again assuming you still make the median income). This means that the median income increased ~$9,000 dollars between 1998 and 2006 (we're not concerned with the value of those dollars yet)
Now, with those 48,201 one dollar bills back in 2006 you could only buy $167 worth of more crap as you could in 1998 with your 38,885 one dollar bills. (Here's where inflation and all your other economic factors come into play, meaning the value of the median income only changed $167 between 1998 and 2006)
Get it? Now both of you retire to your respective corners...
- NCSU
If you took all the cash you made in 1998 (assuming you made the median income) you'd have 38,885 one dollar bills. If you did the same thing in 2006 you'd have 48,201 one dollar bills. So, you'd have 9,316 more one dollar bills in 2006 than you would have back in 1998 (again assuming you still make the median income). This means that the median income increased ~$9,000 dollars between 1998 and 2006 (we're not concerned with the value of those dollars yet)
Now, with those 48,201 one dollar bills back in 2006 you could only buy $167 worth of more crap as you could in 1998 with your 38,885 one dollar bills. (Here's where inflation and all your other economic factors come into play, meaning the value of the median income only changed $167 between 1998 and 2006)
Get it? Now both of you retire to your respective corners...
- NCSU
Last edited by NCSU_05_FX4; May 2, 2008 at 01:56 PM.
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From: Hammer Lane
I hate to say it; but, BHibbs is correct. In that chart, current means the varying value of the dollar in the years listed (Raw uncorrected data), not it's current value. The way to gauge the difference in pay is to have a common value for the dollar, as in the line that lists 2006 dollars. That is the line that tells the story.
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From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Yeah, it sucks when median income (in constant dollars) is flat or even declining from 10 years ago.
Real increases in standard of living are what we want to see, and that ain't happening right now. And with energy costs high, look for inflation to outstrip any $ increase in wages for the short term.
On the plus side, there were 12,137,000 more wage earners in 2006 compared to 1998, and the average income was up about $2,500 in constant 2006 dollars.
Real increases in standard of living are what we want to see, and that ain't happening right now. And with energy costs high, look for inflation to outstrip any $ increase in wages for the short term.
On the plus side, there were 12,137,000 more wage earners in 2006 compared to 1998, and the average income was up about $2,500 in constant 2006 dollars.
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Real Median Income is ALWAY'S represented in the most recent years Dollars. That's why they Use it, to get a good comparison of one year to the next.
Saying it was 38k in 1998 and 48k in 2006 implies Inflation is going Down. Peoples standards of living are Greatly Improving. The cost of living is Decreasing (Substantially!). It's Deceptive! And WRONG.
Please, look up and Read what REAL MEDIAN INCOME Really is, and what it represents...
Saying it was 38k in 1998 and 48k in 2006 implies Inflation is going Down. Peoples standards of living are Greatly Improving. The cost of living is Decreasing (Substantially!). It's Deceptive! And WRONG.
Please, look up and Read what REAL MEDIAN INCOME Really is, and what it represents...
"How bout some FACTS. The Average Median Income was around 48k in 1998. It's around 48k TODAY!"
Don't put REAL in there now and make it sound like that's what you meant. You were implying the median income in 1998 was the same as it is now.
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In all honesty, I think you're both idiots for not being able to figure this out. You're both saying the same thing, in two different ways.
If you took all the cash you made in 1998 (assuming you made the median income) you'd have 38,885 one dollar bills. If you did the same thing in 2006 you'd have 48,201 one dollar bills. So, you'd have 9,316 more one dollar bills in 2006 than you would have back in 1998 (again assuming you still make the median income). This means that the median income increased ~$9,000 dollars between 1998 and 2006 (we're not concerned with the value of those dollars yet)
Now, with those 48,201 one dollar bills back in 2006 you could only buy $167 worth of more crap as you could in 1998 with your 38,885 one dollar bills. (Here's where inflation and all your other economic factors come into play, meaning the value of the median income only changed $167 between 1998 and 2006)
Get it? Now both of you retire to your respective corners...
- NCSU
If you took all the cash you made in 1998 (assuming you made the median income) you'd have 38,885 one dollar bills. If you did the same thing in 2006 you'd have 48,201 one dollar bills. So, you'd have 9,316 more one dollar bills in 2006 than you would have back in 1998 (again assuming you still make the median income). This means that the median income increased ~$9,000 dollars between 1998 and 2006 (we're not concerned with the value of those dollars yet)
Now, with those 48,201 one dollar bills back in 2006 you could only buy $167 worth of more crap as you could in 1998 with your 38,885 one dollar bills. (Here's where inflation and all your other economic factors come into play, meaning the value of the median income only changed $167 between 1998 and 2006)
Get it? Now both of you retire to your respective corners...
- NCSU
To answer my original question: the MEDIAN INCOME IN 1998 WAS
38K!!! Thanks for the info NCSU and Dave, my question is answered.
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From: Tulsa, O K L A H O M A!
The numbers don't really matter that much. If the top end and the bottom end make more per year, but the majority in the muiddle stay stagnant, the numbers will show an increase, but that doesn't represent healthy growth. If the middle class doesn't drive the increase in wages every year, then the economy will suffer. The purchases that really drive the economy are made by the middle class.
Grim