Ah, nothing like a challenging discussion. :-)

In regards to kingfish's comment on more energy usage, I'm having trouble understanding where this extra energy is going. If 4500 watts are being put into the heater tank, I would think the energy/heat has to be going somewhere.

For a natural-gas heater, where if the heat from the flame is not absorbed into the water, it will go out the flue, resulting in higher flue temperatures as well as longer firing times to get the water up to target temp. I can understand greater energy usage due to scaling here - the extra heat is going out the flue.

For the electric heater, it's a direct-immersion arrangement. If something such as scale is surrounding or coating the element, the heat transfer is not as efficient, resulting in localized boiling and higher element temperatures that lead to early failures. The energy going into the scale and into boiling water should still be available to reheat the water after the element has shut off. But, different from the natural-gas heater, the same amount of heat is still put into a closed tank, and temperatures should eventually stabilize, with the net energy used over a given time being the same as well?

I learned a long time ago and several times since - when theory and real-world collide, real-world almost always wins out. Just trying to understand where the extra energy is going.

 

Thanks guys this has helped. Was talking with the wife about it, reading her the replies you guy have given. We really don't have the money now to replace, could if we "had to" but with Christmas coming money is tight.
When we first got it a person could take a 30 min shower and maybe have to turn teh water up once. Now we have to constantly adjust the water temp of the shower to keep it warm.
She had to run to town to pick up a few things today now. So she is going to pick up a couple elements and try that. We do have really hard limestone saturated water around here. Missouri is nothing but limestone.

The water heater is an EverKleen, Self Cleaning water heater. That was one of the reasons I bought it. It is glass lined suppose to prevent lime build up and not sure how it cleans it's self but when I have flushed it, I get just a little bit of sediment out. Very minute, not hardly even worth my time of dragging teh water hose into the house and hooking it up. After 11 years of sitting it water and getting hot I don't think any system is going to keep the elements clean. It's done a dang good job though going by performance so far. I'll know more when I pull them out after a while.

SOB

Well now I'm going to go buy some 1/4" plate steel and build a casing to weld up around it then lag bolt that to the concrete floor!

I knew they could explode, but I didn't realize that they could BLOW UP!

When someone said it exploded, I imagined a seam breaking open and dumping water out. Not an actual "explosion/rocket"!

 

The thermostat wont shut off until the water has reached the given temp. So that makes the element run longer. True when it shuts off the lime scale would still be putting off heat so your actually heating the water above your designated temp. Hot water loses energy faster than it gains it. (thats why hot water freezes faster then cool water does) So it may take a little longer to cool off enough for it to kick back on but not long enough to equal the energy from added time that it ran. Then it has to run long again once it does kick on to get it back up to temp. This is a constant multiplication of energy.

I'm definatly not a scientist or expert in any way, so not 100% sure that is how it really works, but makes sense to me.

 

Matt, with how the water is in our areas, you NEED to change your heating elements. At my "frat club", we were changing them out once a year cause the water in Rolla has so much calcium in it. Changing them makes all of the difference. Water heats up quicker and uses less energy.

ETA: We finally got sick of replacing them and just put in new gas hot water heaters

 

We have discussed gas, would have been nice last year when the power was out for 12 days to of had gas then. At least would have had hot water. My generator isn't big enough to run the hot water heater. But the price of gas is outrageous right now, even with Mrs. Mags discount.

 

As PSS-Mag stated, the longer it runs to get to the correct temp, the more energy it uses.

PSS-Mag, if you change out the elements, that would be a good time to look at the sacrificial anode. After 11 years, I would expect that it is totally or almost totally gone.

 

PSS-Mag - I suggest that the 'glass-lined' feature is so the tank doesn't corrode nor enable the build-up of scale on the tank's inner surface.

From what you describe, I imagine you may have a challenge getting the bottom element out - it may be encased tightly in scale 'droppings', if the self-cleaning feature isn't all it's supposed to be. Not sure how the self-cleaning feature works, only thing I can envision is that the cold water inlet is swirled at the bottom to stir any scale up so it can then be passed on to your respective faucet screens to plug them up.

If there is a lot of scale in the bottom of the heater, suggest to get a wet-dry vac with a suitable nozzle ready to suck that stuff out through the lower element opening. I use a section of 3/4" PVC duct-taped to the fire-hose nozzle attachment.

A properly functioning pressure/temperature relief valve should prevent any catastrophic explosions, but it will still scare the bejeezus out of you if it pops off. This is the reason for the recommendation to pipe its outlet down close to the floor, or someplace relatively safe, so to avoid any personal burns or injuries.

May want to consider a water softener. My incoming water is 26 grains hardness per gallon (7000 grains = 1 lb), but with the softener, the water heater stays clean, with just a few specks of scale during its annual flush. Also, no problems with lime buildup on faucets, coffee pots, and showers.

 

I remember looking the self cleaning up a few years ago. If memory serves me it is just like you described, the inlet is a pipe that runs down the inside and actually fills the tank from the bottom. Probably is turned to run around the side of the tank to make a whirlpool effect.

I also remember on another thread about water heaters a couple of years ago, discussing the anode. Until then I didn't know that they had one. I meant to check it at that time, but being the master procrastinator that I am, I never did. Does anyone have a link on how to replace it? Where it is on most models or anything?

 

Bingo, that is how it work, swirling the water.

 

Part #9 on the attached link
http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit...185226-000.pdf

I looked at mine - at all the insulation I would have to dig through - talked myself out of it.

 

I thin kI found it, there are 3 plastic caps on the top, the largest one closest to the center look like a bolt head I think I can get a socket on it easy enough but it looks rusted bad. I don't know if it will come out. I soaked in in WD-40. I have an new anode from my boat I bought but wouldn't fit and never took back. I may just bust off a piece of it and stuff in the element hole.

 

If you decide to replace the anode, and can't get it loose, I learned from an old plumber, that what you do is try and tighten it just slightly. Not even an eighth of a turn. You should be able to get it loose then.

 

If the head will stay together and not round off, I should be able to get it. It's pretty big so will require one of the 1/2" drive sockets. My 1/2 drive ratchet is pretty long, gives plenty of leverage. I haven't found anything that it wont either force loose, twist off, or round off. It's the later 2 that worry me.
Especially twisting off! Then I'd have a whole can of worms I'd wish that I hadn't opened.

 

I can't believe the plumber did not recommend a new heater, back a few dozen posts age.
Anyway, i would replace it asap after the holidays. Also check with your power company, they may help pay for some of the new one if it is energy efficient.
If you have access to an infrared thermometer, (like a rayteck) get it and point it around your breakers to find out if anything is getting warmer than things around it. That would indicate a poor connection which would make the meter current tally up more, as well as being a safety issue.
Check for water leaks. Check your dishwasher and turn off the heat dryer on it, it is not really necessary most of the time..If you have motion sensor floodlights, make sure they are not coming on all during the day for every little leaf that blows by.
Check your power bill too, sometimes they have data like how much power was used this time last year, compare and see what you are doing different.

 

Yea we keep using more and more power each month compared to same month last year. But we keep adding more and more stuff too.
Last year at this time we only had satellite in one room, we got the kids hooked up for Christmas last year and now their TV's are almost always on too.
Also our bill is more than others we talk to, even my in laws mobile home, even though it's a new mobile home, I know my basement house is more efficient than theirs. They have electric heat where I have wood. They turn their A/c on about a month before we do and and run it a month longer. They are home 24/7 where we both work. It shouldn't ever be higher than theirs.

I'm looking for my IR thermometer now, that is a good idea. I will do that.