Kursk: Sub in Troubled Waters

OK, this is the first time I ever watched the Sundance Channel, but when I saw the name "Kursk" it caught my attention.

Remembering back to what seems like yesterday, but the story confirms it happened in 2000, the documentary exposed a theory that I had never heard of; that theory stating there was no malfunction of a soviet torpedo in the launch tube, and that the Kursk was hit and sank by an American Mk-48 Torpedo...




Of course, I had to watch the ole thing, and what is clear is the fact that a number of things are questionable in this issue. They went on to tell how initially they sent divers in to recover the bodies, and after bringign up 4, they desiced to raise the entire ship.

A Dutch arm of Haliburton (who else) was called in to do the job ($130 M). For some reason, they decided to cut the torpedo section of the sub off, before raising it (Even though it was considered dangerous to cut it, because either event could potentially cause an explosion. The half of the ship they did bring in, had a perfectly round hole in its starboard side, just aft of the torpedoe section.

A few experts note this is the strike pattern evidenced by this hit is the earmark of the Mk 48 torpedo. They went on to say the torpedo uses the same technology our tanks and A-10's use, allowing it to pierce a hull deeply before exploding. They went on to state that the computer guidance causes the torpedo to strike just forward of the conning tower, so that the command center is destroyed. After people started noticing this hole, no more photographs were allowed of this area.

Now, what was ironic, one fo the Soviet arms men was found, keys still in hand, dead beside the area in which the nuclear launch codes are held. No one knows what he was about to do, or why he had the keys to that locker...

Was the Kursk about to lauch an SLCM at someone? Were they practicing? Or, were the Russians aware that some serious schyt was about to go down, and they called our boys in to sink the Kursk? The world will never know, but this documentary will certainly have some wondering just WTF really happened out there...

Later, the Soviets destroyed the torpedo section under water, never brining it to the surface. The remainder of teh hull was cut down, and melted. They went on to state that in 2002, the Russians admitted the Kursk did have nuclear weapons on board, although that was initially strongly denied.
Maybe this was just as they said or maybe it was just as the official reports state. But, no matter what, it is one of those things that make you go... Hmmmm...

So many conspiracies, so little time...

Watching one about Hiroshima & Nagasaki now... Original Child Bomb/Atomic Age
People with faces burned off, no eyes and mouths fused shut... That would have been some scary schyt to see...

Kursk: Article 1

Article 2

 

There are lots of things involved with running the world that I'm happy not knowing about. This is one of those things. I'll be thing about you Hersh when I'm watching the clock at 1:00 AM this morining

 

The problem is, regardless of whether you demand to know what is being done in our name or choose to ignore it, you most certainly will pay the price for it good or bad.

So, can I ummm, have your checkbook and you can just trust me to handle it in your best interests ???

 

Two things;
One - the hole is too large for a Mk 48 torpedo, or any of our current weapons.
Two - even if the torpedo entered the sub, and then exploded, the initial blast would be directed back out the entry hole. If that were the case, the metal would be torn outward, not punched in.

 

Hold On Just A Second !!!!!

Look at that pic again . . . .



If I'm not mistaken, that's Lee Harvey Oswald there in the foreground, and he's holding a rifle, and some kind of paperwork!!!!

Proof of a conspiracy!!!!

 

The single Mk48 theory ???

 

Sure . . .

Oswald could have been deep sea diving and launched a small version of an Mk48 with a handheld device.

 

Perhaps there was a second submarime behind the grassy undersea knoll.

Actually, there were 2 US subs in the area... The Memphis and onother one...

They said the diameter of the Mk 48 is the exact size of that hole... Hmmm...

Other's think we effed up and shot that sub, which is why we forgave so much of Russia's debt, and gave them another loan... Nobody knows 4 sure... And, we'll never know... Our subs and their subs playing cat & mouse could go horribly wrong... It's not like you can see what you're doing under there...

I just thought it was interesting, if you ever have 90minutes to burn, and access to the Sundance channel.

USS Memphis and USS Toledo
Shortly after the sinking of the Kursk two American Los Angeles-class submarines — Memphis and Toledo — put-in to European ports. Some people without direct knowledge of submarines speculated that there was either foul-play or a collision, but in all likelihood these two vessels were monitoring the activities of the war games. When the Kursk sank, Memphis and Toledo acquired data on the explosion. After the sinking, the games were canceled, and the two US vessels put in to port to offload data to the US Naval Command for further analysis.

 

Former submariner here... not a torpedoman, but was a conventional weapons handleing supervisor (supervised the torpedomen when they were moving weapons, etc.). I feel I can speak with some authority on this subject. Mk48 torpedoes do not penetrate the hulls of ships prior to explosion. They detonate beneath the ship (or possibly on contact, but not penetrating) creating a huge void and causing sufficient damage to cause the ship to break under its own weight. Its much more efficient, causes a huge hole. Much larger than what would have been made.

Secondly explosions follow the "path of least resistance", were they to penetrate the hull, the brunt of the explosive force would try to escape out of the hole. The would cause the hole to be much larger and the metal curled outward, not inward. (As was pointed out earlier)

some interesting MK-48 info here

I'd love to say that a US sub was behind this... but its simply not true.

 

The perfectly round hole looks like it used to be covered by a hatch. Likely curled inward by the force of the water entering the hull.

Hatch probably got blown off in the accident, or maybe even released by the crew in an attempt to escape.

BTW, there are hundreds of reasons why we would forgive Russian debt and give them additional loans. We do that all the time, even for countries that don't have any subs for us to sink. Making a nexus between the sub sinking and the loans sounds a little loony-toons to me.

 

You know Hersh, this just reeks of Red October. Perhaps someone was watching/reading a little too much HFRO and decided to play Sean Connery for a day. .

 

I was thinking the same thing...

As for the Looney Toons, Maybe-maybe not...

I didn't make the correllation, I'm just relaying the information as it was stated in the documentary. I'm not saying its true, I have no evidence either way- all I can say is, it was interesting to watch.

Believe me when I tell you, if you think everything our government (Or any government) tells us in the God's honest truth, then, well, the word "gullible" comes to mind...

Things that didn't happen the way it was initially reported:

• BlackHawk Down: (Had a friend who was a Ranger, we both live in Plano, went to school together.)
  
• The shooting of the former NFL player turned soldier in Afghanistan: Initially told he was killed by the enemy in a heroic battle, later recanted to state he was killed by friendly fire.
  
• The SCUD hitting the port in Dhahran: (I was there- I could tell you, but, then I'd have to kill you. )
  
• TWA flight 800
  
• The Iranian (Or Iraqi) Airbus that was shot down over the Persian Gulf by an Aegis-Class cruiser.
  
• USS Stark.
  
• JFK
  
• The truth about the Patriot missle system (As reported in the Stars & Stripes)

As for the Kursk, it's water 6 years under the bridge now. Nevertheless, I'm not suggesting we believe everything we hear, I'm just saying we should always wonder, "What if?" That's all I'm saying...

 

While we're listing off things that didn't really happen as they were reported I'll give you a BIG and recent one though I'm not naming the guys that gave me this information or pictures.

Saddam Hussein:

Location:
Saddam Hussein was not found in a hole in a desert area in Iraq. The pictures shown of the hole and the area on the news were not even close to the place they found him. He was found in a similiar hole but it was in the middle of a very large garden. He also had cash, a pistol (both of these items were reported), but he also had gold bars, lots of them.

Gold:
Within a mile or so of Saddam there was two very large trucks (similar to those which carry military payloads) which were filled with gold bars identical to the ones held by Saddam.

I don't know why the news every really reported the real location Saddam was found or about the two truck loads of gold. However, I do know that I have the pictures on a CD from one of my good friends who was part of the detail that actually found Saddam and took the pictures of his location, the gold, walking him through the base in front of everyone and his inspection.

Before he gave me the CD though he asked me to promise that I wouldn't share the pictures but that I could talk about it. Without the pictures there is no "real proof" so none of this could be taken to the press and people can't get in trouble.

But I share with you one instance of something being vastly different then what you were told on the news.

Duke

 

During the first Gulf War, some buddies of mine took pictures of what I believed we called Tap-Line Road. I didn't witness it first hand, but for some of my friends that were attached to Army infantry, Marine Infantry, French Foreign Legion, and others- what they took pictures of and brought back was amazing. There were scores of dead Iraqi soldiers. They were pounded and bombed into oblivion. I mean, the weapons we have must be awesome, because some of these guys were still looking up with their hands on the steering wheel, burned to a crisp, and still in place. It must've been mostly heat, because one woudl believe the blast would have obliterated their bodies, and threw vehicles every which way, but, the vehicles (most of them) were still in serial, as if they were convoying.

It's a quick death when you don't even have time to wretch or agonize from the pain, change your posture or anything. Two or three of them sitting should to shoulder in their trucks, some looking up, a few in a hollering posture...

Some of our guys obviously crawled up on the vehicles and put cigarettes in the dead guys mouths and took pictures of them. (New/clean cigarettes don't go with blackly burned, crispy bodies.) I'm surprised the photo mats even developed those pictures (This was way before digital cameras were widespread). They thought they could come back to the US and sell them for big $$$ to the news papers and magazines.

I don't know if you guys saw those images back here, but it was something to see. I mean, mile after mile of obliterated vehicles, and dead people.

 

There was a special on the History Channel about that.

Video of that road, after the fact....not just still pictures.

Highway of Death or something like that, is what they called it.