oh well ***** happens...

at least that is what I was told on here when I mentioned all the plants in Michigan that closed.

It seems that everyone forgot with Mercedes bought Chrysler they laidoff 44,000 workers in the US, mostly in michigan
That GM closed the plant in Lansing and Flint
That Ford is closing the Wixom assembly plant (largest assembly plant in the US)

So I know exactly what your thinking Raoul.

 

Going to be a lot more out of work when it's all done. Many smaller businesses around our area will be affected.

 

Maybe just some perspective to counteract the "big corporate America is bad" sentiment that I've been sensing in some of these posts. As soon as I saw this thread, I went to the website of my hometown newspaper, The Minneapolis Star Tribune, to read about the jointly-announced closure of the St. Paul Assembly Plant where the Ranger and Mazda small pick-ups are made.

I was amazed (to an extent) to read quotes from some of the Union workers who more or less implied that their leadership let them down and should have worked more aggressively to relax some of the work rules at the plant. I was surprised to hear such candid and coherent remarks come from these rank-and-file guys, because so often all you get from them is this tired, uneducated ramble about "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay" or some other worn-out battle cry from the 1930's.

Very few of us (certainly not me) work in environments where our actions and efforts are so closely and ridiculously regulated as what we see in today's American auto industry. There is simply NO WAY the American automakers can compete with these restrictive guidelines in place, and the only people who fail to see this seem to be Union leadership, who appear to be more intent on riding the ship to the bottom of the ocean rather than saving their jobs and the company that their father's and grandfather's helped build!

Sure, it was nice being the guy who swept the shop floor and got paid $56k a year to do so, but it's not reality anymore! Moving to a "right to work" state like Texas is just good, common sense for the manufacturers -- not a sell-out of the American worker! It's not like the new jobs in Texas will be low-pay jobs -- the pay will just be more in line with the skill-set that the worker brings to the table.

I hate to see my hometown lose the jobs, but I completely understand why it had to happen, and will happen several more times over the next few years in other communities. I'm not going to stop buying Fords simply because they are doing what they need to do to turn the company around. They are not a social program for the state, but rather a "for profit" business entity that needs to make decision based on economics, not quaint fantasies about their role in American society.

Just my .02 cents.....

 

I agree with you. I for one as a consumer am glad to see the closings of the plants. I understand it will cause hardship on the employees, but we live in a capatilistic society. This is the way things really are. I see it as a failure of the unions, if they were able to provide the product at the most value Ford would keep the plant open. However the unions have made it impossible for the company to compete in that particular environment. Instead of raising prices Ford decided to do what was best for the company and for the consumer and close those plants. I'm sure alot of those employees could move to the new plant and stay employed, but alot will have to find other work. They've reaped the benefits of a union job, now unfortunately for them they have to pay the consequences. Like I said I feel sorry for them personally but, I'm glad the company made the right move.

 

Man, apparently ALL the blame from u guys is on the union and it's members. Yes, there are problems with unions, but come on. Ford has designed some very plain and pitiful cars for years and years. Stuck with high end SUV's to carry the load and done very little to increase fuel mileage. All of which makes customers or potential customers look elsewhere.
Also, not all union workers push a broom and do nothing else. People on this board seem to think that is all we do.
Ford is building the new Fusion in Mexico, where the labor costs are far far less, but still price it as high if not higher then its sister car (Mazda 6) built right here in the USA. Don't think if labor costs are cheaper they are going to lower the price. It's all about the almighty dollar.

 

I understand that not all union workers push a broom, etc. I actually just took a union job working with Bridgestone/Firestone. But the fact of the matter with the norfolk plant is it produced the best selling vehicle for ford, and still couldn't remain competitive. It was not capable of producing the superduty series which held it back and the location was poor for shipping to the rest of the country (more centrally located is better). Lowering labor costs may not lower current prices, but will prevent rising prices at the same rate. Simply put, Ford isn't stupid. They know they can sell X model F150 for 30,000 and it costs them 25,000 to produce it in Norfolk. By reducing labor costs they cut the cost to produce down to 23,000 and still sell the same number at 30. But what happens when cost of production rises? It now costs an additional 3 grand to produce a similar truck, but Ford only needs to raise their prices by 1 grand to make the same profits (assuming the rate of sales stays the same). So in the long run it makes it better for both Ford and for the consumer.

 

Labor and its associated costs are the greatest burden to US automakers and that is strictly related to the unreasonable demands that the UAW places on them. I'm not saying Ford and GM are without fault but combine poor decisions with an abusive union and you have the makings of failure.

Its true they are lacking in perceived quality and attractiveness but that doesnt change the fact that an American automaker has to make 1000s of extra dollars on each car to compete with non-unionized car makers.

Thankfully it is slowly coming to an end:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3979092.htm

 

One of the main considerations for Ford closing this plant and the Ranger plant in Minnisota are they are not flex plants. Ford is trying as part of its restructuring to have over 85% of their plants be flex plants. Plants that can change to or build different models easily. Production from the VA plant most likely will go to the Dearborn plant that already builds F150s and is a flex plant.
Economicly it only makes sence to have the flexibility in your manufacturing process to better change with model demands.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2006604140349


Sled...

 

You're right -- Ford has done a relatively poor job with their product mix over the years, and that certainly plays a role in the comapny's current dilemma. And poor product (either in quality or selection) WOULD drive me away from Ford products!

But I see them making headway in this regard, just as I see them making headway with their labor costs via plant closings in certain parts of the country and plant openings in other parts of the country! Whether we like it or not, it is all part of the business cycle.

I also understand that not all Union workers push a broom, but I can say with some voracity that most UAW workers could not demand anywhere close to their current wages if they went out on the open market. As a whole, I would say the UAW workers, regardless of position, are grossly over-paid for the skill set they bring to the table.

I don't begrudge the workers for what they enjoyed in the past, but realities have changed -- the party is over and it probably lasted far longer than it should have.

 

With regard to the union question. Texas is a right to work state (non-union) so Ford can put a non- union plant here. It has to be built within a certain distance of an existing non-union plant to qualify. Apparently Ford had to let Toyota beat them to town here before they could come in. This is all just pretty good rumor so we shall see I guess.

 

Union-Non union, doesn't matter when you have friends losing their jobs.

 

Here are the facts, like them or not, they are the facts…

Any manufacturing jobs which are associated with unions, such as those at Ford, will be gone within 5 – 10 years from now. There is no need for unions employees who do manufacturing work when it can be done much cheaper with better quality either in states that are “right to work”, across the border, or overseas.

The UAW, and others like them, screwed up big time and now its time to pay. I for one am glad to see those union jobs go away. While it hurts some employees its an overall win for the consumer, of which those UAW employees are as well.

Union manufacturing jobs basically equal higher product cost and lower product quality. One reason Toyota is much better then Ford when it comes to quality and value added is because they are NOT a union shop.

Employees should get paid based on their success and what value they actually add to a product. Those who are poor performers need to be shown the door and those who add value should be paid accordingly.

There should be a base pay and then profit sharing. Base pay may be $20k – $30k a year depending on what type of work an employee performs. In good years, due to making a product competitively, an employee may see their paycheck rise by say 30% or what ever the company sees. Likewise in the bad years due to poor quality or just not being able to be competitive they could see they pay remain at the base pay level.

That will inspire employees who are actually willing to work to work and understand they will get compensated in direct proportion to what they bring to the table.

Union employees in manufacturing jobs do not have to perform, there is no incentive to do so, other then the very basic standard which is always sub par. You could have two union employees who perform the same job and one could be an outstanding worker while the other one is a slacker but they both get the same pay. Many union people see that and figure why bother putting out if you’re not going to get rewarded for it.

Unions promote poor work ethics, poor quality standards, and try to make everyone equal which is equal to the least possible standards needed to not get fired after months of warnings. Unions have never and will never promote people to grow and exceed.

This is a good move on Ford’s part but you will see all other auto manufactures that have union shops do the same in that they will move their plants to states or countries that won’t force them to use people with substandard work ethics…

This is NOT Ford’s fault, this is NOT big business’s fault, and this is NOT the consumers fault, the fact is, it is the union’s fault…

 

I agree. Unions have made it tough to compete with the rest of the world. Something has to give, businesses can not incur ever increasing costs and stay alive.

 

Yes, unions have made things tough for the OEM's and their suppliers. Due to several factors, including the increasing cost of dwinding insurance coverage, no raise or bonus in the forseable future despite being one of the more profitable plants for a Chapter 11 company, and no 401(k) company match, I ended up leaving Tower Automotive recently for Nissan North America up the road. Basically several poor decisions, rising steel costs, and increasing labor costs from all of the unions in the northern states lead to Tower's Chapter 11 status over a year ago.

Ironically, prior to my first week at Nissan, they eliminated the guaranteed bonus for an incentive bonus (but my new base salary is now what my base + guaranteed bonus would have been under the old plan). Even the foreign companies are making changes to prevent them from being the next Ford or GM in terms of facing bankruptcy and plant closings in the US. The weird thing about Tower's bankruptcy is that it was only North America since Tower Europe is highly profitable.

 

It's macroeconomics, pure and simple. The Unions factored into the cost of labor and hence drove up the marginal costs. By reducing or eliminating the union costs from the equation it becomes more profitable. It's why lots of stuff we buy here in America is assembled in Mexico...it's cheaper to do so.

Moving the plant to TX and keeping it non union lowers the per unit cost to a more acceptable level.

I still don't like that the plant here is closing though.