I was going to post this as a reply in the Jane Fonda thread, but it got so long, that I decided to post a new thread with it.

Some of you, and now those reading this, know that my cousin is over in Iraq. While I am a conservative Republican, and I will always support our troops, I have to admit that I'm not sure about what we're doing there.

Let me explain.

I work in the power industry. I deal with alot of contractors that are currently flying back and forth to Iraq. I also have another cousin in Army Intelligence, (I know that's an oxymoron) who will retire with 20 years in the millitary next year.

Of the 2 cousins, and 2 contractors I know who have all spent a great deal of time over there, the same story is coming from them ALL.

I'll give you a portion of my cousin Nate's last letter. He is in Samara.

"We seem to make little headway in this city. Fighting only seems to escalate and the populous grows more and more apprehensive.
Just last week, Bravo Co. was ambushed near downtown wounding two with a concussion grenade and small arms. Once civilians saw that our soldiers were injured successfully, masses of them came onto the streets and openly
applauded. It made me sick to hear such garbage.

I do believe we could do some good here, but not like this. I'm starting to
realize you just can't help those who do not wish it. All we're doing is
putting our boys in harm's way. But whatever, there's nothing any of us can
do about it."


Nate is very depressed. When he got there, he was assigned to the team that is training the new Iraqi Police Force is Samara. He was pumped and excited to be in on that detail.

He is now extremely depressed. The only time the locals are happy about things is when a load of soccer ***** arrives for the kids from our Army. They just don't want to change. They want life the way it was, much to our inability to understand.

The contractors mentioned above tell me the exact same thing. The Iraqi's don't want our involvement. They wanted Sadaam out, but they want that same type of government back.

While I'm not about to jump on the anti-war bus, I am starting to wonder exactly how and when we are going to step out of that country, and let the chips fall where they may. We can't make this horse drink.

As far as my other cousin who is in Intelligence, it's the same story. There's alot of things that my cousin will never be able to tell me as far as details, but the main point that is always made is that we are not ever going to be able to make them a democracy. They don't want it. The sad thing is that all this time, I've been blowing off those that claim we are just there for the oil, but that IS the underlying reason we are doing what we're doing.

North Korea is a better fish to fry if you use the Bush administration's reason for what we've done in Iraq, yet we don't even bat an eye at them. They have WMD's. But now, we're eyeing Iran instead. It's very hard for me to say this, as I would normally tow the party line, but I'm starting to think that we are not getting the whole picture from Bush. I'm very disappointed with what is happening, and with these 4 people, all in different areas of Iraq, telling me the same stories, I'm really questioning our actions.

 

I too support our troops in whatever theatre they are involved..However, I think that we have completed the necessary (?) and have removed Sadam from his role as leader of that country..
It is now time for us to depart that theatre, and return our troops to their loved ones..
The stories your cousins and contractor friends tell you are all to reminesent of what I saw in Viet Nam in the multiple tours I served there...I at one time thought that what we were doing there was right(I would do it again and have no remorse for my actions while there, its what I chose and was trained to do) but after realizing that "WE" believed in what we were doing, and that the South Vietnemese Forces, and populus could seeming care less, made me bitter and resentful and changed my views..
I in all honesty believe it is time to call it a day in Iraq, and give them the chance to govern themselves.
Bring our troops home....

 

I too support our troops always. It is not theirs to make decisions, but to do.

If you believe this war ever had anything to do with terrorism, I feel bad for you. Let's see, WMD's. no (just like Powell and Rice said prior to 9/11), The world is better off without Saddam, (true, but) NO, uhm, oh yeah, we went to bring freedom to the Iraqi's. Give me a break, Bush couldn't give two craps about Iraqi's.

Iraq is about geography, plain and simple, that's why we are building 14 military bases there, and closing down many others across Europe (well planning to), terrorism and WMD's were an easy story to sell. We've been meddling in the middle east for a long time now (mostly unsuccessfully too). Do you really think the terrorists hate us because they are jealous or because they hate freedom? Please. Their leaders have said many times why they hate us, wake up.

The war on terror is no better than Bush Sr's war on drugs. It's going no where fast. You want to minimize terror? First, you find out who carries out an attack on you or your friends. You hunt them and you kill them, and anyone who had ANYTHING to do with it including planning, financing or just talking about it. Remember, even though Bush used the words 9/11 and Saddam together in thousands of speeches, Saddam had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with 9/11. Second, you find the cause and treat it, or accept the fallout (if you run into a burning building to save someone, you will get scorched, it's worth it, but don't complain about the burn), speaking of which, you don't put out a fire shooting water at flames, you extinguish the source. You'll never completely eliminate terrorism, but you can make it almost gone.

OK Burt, come out with all of your standard adjectives describing how Clinton screwed it all up.

 

The War on Drugs is THE #1 CAUSE of the loss of individual freedom here in America. Now it's being surpassed by the GWOT and the Patriot Act. As a former solier myself I have a special 'hope' for the soldiers on duty this very day, I'm sure you prior service guys know what I mean.

Iraq is just a Cluster ******* and to be honest I feel that I wasted 2 votes on dumbaZZ3d Dubya.

 

You have to keep in mind that the things you are saying about the Iraqi's now were also said about the German's in the years after WWII. Things like they were a population who had only known such an endless string of tyrannical rulers that there was little, if any, hope of "civilizing" them.

Fifteen years later these people were proven wrong -- just as I suspect will be the case in Iraq ten to fifteen years down the line. Despite the costs, I firmly believe the end will justify the means, and that in the long run, there will be less loss of American life than if we just sat on our hands and did nothing. That is the European approach, and it is precisely why we had to save them from themselves three times in the last century!

The concept of Democracy will be a difficult one for people to grasp in this part of the world, but when it does take hold, it will spread just as it has in other parts of the world!