http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_debt_ratings


Is Ford in trouble???

 

Hope the check dont bounce on that new truck Triton!

 

that artical kinda got me upset though!

 

Thats just wrong!

















But funny as hell

 

its just sad that american car companies are so shortsighted. They dont learn from their mistakes. If they thought ahead they wouldnt be in this predictament, but no, they r shotting themselves in the foot again. Cant build a car that just blows away the competition. All they build are trucks, but with gas prices the way they r, trucks dont look too attractive.

 

GM and Ford are both capable of producing a car that blows away the competition, the problem is that it would be nearly impossible to do it profitably. Car marketing is different than truck and suv marketing. Ford has a better shot than GM at making it. Ford has a hit with the 500 and the new Mustang. I would have to assume that the Mustang is profitable, I paid full sticker for mine so I know the dealer made a profit. At GM they have the new G6 and the Cobalt, the LaCrosse, etc. but from what I have read, they aren't selling anywhere new as well as they had hoped. An aritcle in a magazine I read said that at the end of the 05 model year, Pontiac and Buick have very good chances of being on the chopping block. Which is probably what GM needs, just Chevy, Caddy and Saturn. Saturn can take the place of Pontiac and Buick. Caddy can be the luxury arm and Chevy could build better quality models. That would make more sense.

Ford needs to be more sensitive to fuel economy, the PowerStroke diesel is having a banner year, I wasn't even able to find one when I bought my KR. The diesel F-150 would be a big hit, especially if it got 20mpg city and 25 and better on the highway. Almost everything Ford sells that is worth buying is a pig on gas. Even the 150's are pigs. The Ranger is long overdue for an overhaul. But at least they are getting their cars on track. Every Ford dealer around my area is loaded with Expeditions. I think that the SUV era is over.

My parents both bought Honda Pilots. 4x4 SUV's with lots of room, loaded with leather, sunroof, heated seats, etc. with a smooth and rock solid V-6 engine that is not a pig. The price was about $29000. Ford and GM need vehicles like these to contend. Ford has the Freestyle which is not as capable as the Pilot and the Explorer which is not as refined or economical. Both are powered by nearly antique engines. Which is another sore spot for GM and Ford, there engines are nearly 20 years old again.

With that said, Ford and GM have the Japs beat on one thing, the Tundra and Celica can't hold a candle to a F-150 or Mustang in the "Attitude" department. That's where the domestics have the biggest advantage.

 

Pilot is a car based SUV. Explorer is truck based SUV. Freestyle is an AWD wagon. They each have their own merits. I guarantee the Pilot cannot tow like the Explorer.


The problem is perception. The fact that you compare a Pilot to an Explorer to a Freestyle shows me you have fallen into the Liberal News Media/ Japan Inc PR trap.

Japanese vehicles, apples to apples, are no better in fuel economy than the Detroit vehicles are.
They are no better in quality. ANd don't say "well so-and-so had a Civic/Corolla/Camry that never needed repair.

Its BS. In 18 years I have had 4 Detroit autos. All experienced high mileage of very hard driving (I beat the snot out of what I drive) and NO problems.

I have yet to hop in ANY Japan based vehicle and drive it the way I like to (I drive like its stolen) and not develop squeeks, rattles, bad idling after I have beaten the crap out of it.


And guess what? Toyota is riding the wave of people who think Detroit is all bad and Tokyo is all good.

Yeah, that Pilot is nice now... wait until there is a problem. Time to take out a second mortgage to pay for the repair.

 

Well said. I own several cars with my daily beater being a Cavalier with over 190,000 miles on it. Just got back from Destin, Fl this week and it yielded 40.4 MPG highway. Beats my sisters civic by almost 4 MPG.

 

Here's some information that sheds a little light on the subject.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/all-rank-05.htm

Enjoy,

-Fatz

 

i dont think its a problem of fuel economy in cars anymore, its the problem of, the cars detroit builds just dont stack up to its asian competitors. A Honda Accord blows away a taurus in comparsion, more power, 6 speed option, more features on the car, etc. They give options that people want, where on the other hand Ford and GM, shove thier impalas and taurus's down your throat and expect you to be happy. It seems the american midsize cars are way underpowerd compared to the altima, accord, and even the camry. thats why people are buying those because they have more power and more options you can get on them. Sad but true.

 

ford and gm have a ***** line up of vehicles
and alhtought i love my truck ford lags way behind in all the new gadgets and the quality just isnt that much better
ford and gm also just dont seem to get the message if they have the product people will buy it but they dont they continur to build crap especially the new 500 by ford, come on its got a big trunk and rides nice thats not enought to buy a car.
our american manufacteres just need to cut the crap they need to stop worrying about being number one seller or largest company they need to focus on making money and the best product possible. if ford and gm cut out all the crap and focused on jsut building trucks and building the best then after a while they can come back to the other markets.
it also is disapointing that our brands make overuse frames especially gm with the escalade yukon and tahoe and even the hummer h2 sharing so many parts.
our brands need some serious help and they can fix this if they want they jus tneed to be kicked in the nuts and start to work this out.


if you have the product people will buy it!!!!

 

There's a great story in NewsWeek about how Toyota is starting to dominate

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7693097/site/newsweek/

It's not really all bad news. There's some talk of how Detroit is setting itself up as a world auto headquarters, rather than just american. Toyota has around 6 factories in the US now with more coming, they're non-union but pay comparable to the dreaded UAW, several Americans in their executive management and a huge office in Ann Arbor now.

It's a great read.

-Fatz

 

The UAW has ran the only horse they have into the ground. Lazy half-*** union workers with too much job security are killing the big three here in the States. The whole thing is a catch 22. No unions and eventually you'll owe your soul to the company store. The employer will take advantage of it's workers without organized labor. With unions, eventually labor will eat into the company's profit too far and weaken the ability of said company to compete in the marketplace.



Here's an example of how far the UAW will take the job security issue. It's like the **** poor teachers that can't be fired due to tenure. It's ridiculous.



Drunk on the job How many peoiple could get by with this a work?

http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.js...art=0&tstart=0

 

Why is it that people consider all union workers to be lazy?? I get so tired of reading posts like this. Apparently there aren't lazy people in other industries. Look, before I worked for Ford I worked in many different fields. There were lazy people everywhere and they don't get fired. They just keep going along drawing their paychecks. You cannot blame all of Ford and GM's problems on the union. Management, designers, engineers, etc. should get a lot of blame as well. Besides the new Mustang, what car does Ford have that is outstanding in terms of visual appeal??? NONE. Young people buying cars want "BLING" Ford is so conservative in their designs, they don't sell. Look at the 500, Freestyle, Fusion. 3 new designs and they are all visually nothing special. The UAW strives for quality. Our jobs depend on it. In reality, the company wants units moved over quality. Believe me, I work on the line and it happens everyday.

 

If you can show me where I said all union workers are lazy, you'll get an apology.