I understand exactly how they work but, I'm not certain how I could get one in my current house.

The water in my area is EXTREMELY hard (calcium) and thus, I'd like to do something along these lines but, for one, I don't know where to put it (I suppose it needs to be near where the main comes into the house?) and, secondly, I don't have any clue what they cost.

What type of volume can these things handle? I suppose they have different sizes for different applications but, can you run the washer all day and still be using 'softened' water?

Some one give me the 4-1-1!

I know that they're simple items but, if someone has a moment, could you snap a picture of your softener and post it or email it? Thanks in advance for your help!

RP

 

RP,

I just checked the Sears site, they range from 400 to 1000 bucks, depending on capacity. That should give you a starting point.

Jim

 

Check out Lowes or Home Depot. They have a nice selection, and they shouldn't be very hard to hook up. Just hook into your main water line. Most that I have seen are in the garage.


Lowes also keeps the salt.

Going to wash your truck using the water? ....

 

Thanks...

Yep, I plan to use it to wash vehicles. I'm sick and tired of these hellish water spots.

Every little streak that runs down my truck is a white one that I have to CLAY to remove... It's impossible to enjoy detailing with water quality equal to that of the Love Canal.

RP

 

just bought and installed a new one a few years ago, and did all the research you're probably doing. The size you buy depends on your average water consumption of course.

If you buy too small a softener for your needs, you will waste a lot of water and salt. Basically, a softener works by flowing the incoming water over a bed of (usually) small plastic beads. The beads are coated with sodium ions. An ion replacement takes place, and the calcium in the water is replaced with the sodium. Eventually, all the sodium is removed from the beads, and they are saturated with calcium. So, at this point, you will have normal water flow, it just won't be 'soft'.
So, at this point, the beads must be 'reloaded'. Your water softener will have a salt tank, basically it will fill this with water to make a very salty brine. Then, this saltwater is flushed through the beads to remove the calcium and reload the beads with sodium ions. This takes a whole lot of water (we're talking probably over 20 gallons here), and is when salt is consumed.
A larger softener will hold more beads, but will also require more water and salt to flush it. Too small a softener, and it will need to recharge very often, so you will be wasting resources (and have bouts of hard water during the day). Too large a softener, and you'll be using more water and salt every flushing; but in theory it wouldn't need to flush as often, so it's better to have too big a softener than too small of one.
Most softeners these days have some type of gauge/sensors in them so that they know when to recharge. It's not a linear cutoff; i.e. as you get nearer to needing a recharge, the water will gradually get harder; it won't just go from full soft to full hard (Please, no inbred jokes on that line...). So once it decides its time to recharge, if it does it right then (probably in the middle of a shower), you won't have any flow stoppage or reduction, it will just bypass the softener and you will have totally untreated water instead of fairly treated water. Because of this, most have timers you can set so if it needs a recharge, you can tell it to wait until a certain time later that day when nobody will be likely to use water (ours is set for 4 a.m.) That way, you will never have to use fully hard water.

 

as for installing, it needs to be upstream from anything you want to have softwater coming out of, so as close to the main incoming line as possible is best. The softener will have an internal bypass built into it (so flow isn't interupted during flushing), and probably an external bypass as well, so you can prevent water from flowing through the softener if something happens to it. When you install the plumbing, it is best to use three valves and an h pipe to make another bypass. When our last softener died after many long years of service, the softener's bypass didn't work either, so we lost a lot of water until I got around to getting the new one hooked up. This one has a 3 valve bypass for certain.

You will also need to put a drain hose somewhere; the saltwater that rinses and recharges the beads (and also carries the calcium) will get pumped out a separate line and that will need to drain somewhere. Ours goes right into our main drain pipe, but you could stick the hose into a sink if you happen to have one nearby, but the best thing is obviously going to your main drain line, preferably as close to where it exits your house as possible (Most drain pipes are plastic, so the saltwater won't hurt them, but still, I'd want that stuff going through as few of my pipes as possible.

Once you shower in soft water, you will wonder how you ever lived without it...

EDIT--forgot to add you will need an electical outlet nearby, as it needs juice for the timer and pumps as well...

 

One more thing, another option is electronic deionizers, such as a device called a 'scale-ban' These install over your incoming water pipe (basically coiled wire wrapped around the pipe). They don't actually remove the calcium, but they deionize it to keep it from precipitating. They aren't cheap (you can find some 'cheap' ones out there, but you don't want them; kind of like the $20 ebay horsepower 'chips'). A good one will work very well, but will cost you the same as several water softeners to buy. You won't have to buy salt, and you won't waste any water due to flushing, so in theory the price would eventually it would be made up in salt/water savings.

Also, neither of these are going to totally get rid of your water spots, although they will reduce it. For the ultimate in water quality (and by far the costliest), reverse osmosis filtration is the way to go...

 

Forget the water softener - you need to get an R.O. system

 

WoW... thanks for the response inbred. I really appreciate it.

Is this something that an 'average Joe' can install? The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking I'd rather have someone 'more qualified with plumbing' do it...

I'm amazed at the variety of softeners on the market. I've located a used industrial system about 4 hours from me (on ebay believe it or not) and based on the research I've done with this system, it's a HELLUVA buy. Claims it's only been in service for around a couple of months and thus, it's basically new. It certainly looks new but, if they spent that much and they're pulling it out of line, it makes me wonder.

What brands are the brands to check out and also to avoid?

Thanks again!!!!

-RP-

 

Considering what R.O. systems cost for laboratory applications (maybe 20-30 liters/day), one big enough for household use must be fiendishly expensive.

When I was younger, my grandfather had a water softner and when he had us wash his car he used to buy several gallons of distilled water from Kmart and put it in one of those pump to pressurize bug spray things b/c he still has water spots even with soft water.

 

I have this one, a Culligan gold system with electronic sensor, works great.
http://www.culligan.com/Product.asp?ProductID=511

The most important item that a softener will save is your house pipes.

 

definately a reverse osmosis if you can afford them. the kenmore brand of softners that sears carry is a very good one i have owned 2 of them and they are very good. also after you install the softner you can have your water tested and can help you with what else you may want to do. culligan has a softner and they will deliver the salt to you at a charge, and you can rent one from them as well. as somebody else has already said the most important thing they save is your piepes and house fixtures. ie. faucets shower heads water rings in tubs and showers.

 

I had the Rainsoft softener installed a little over a year ago and I've had no problems with it at all. Inbred is right. Once you shower with soft water you will wonder why you went without for so long. You will still get water spots on your vehicles even with soft water. One more thing: after you install a softener, you must R.O. any water you consume because of the higher salt content. My R.O. is an undersink unit which also has the icemaker plumbed into it. Good luck, it is without a doubt one of the best investments you can make in your home, especially in areas with extra hard water.

 

Thanks for the continued help folks. I have an inline water filter for my fridge (a carbon filter I believe). Would this be sufficient to avoid having to buy a RO unit?

Thanks again folks! I sincerely appreciate it!

-RP-

 

RP: The only way to remove salt from the water is through R.O. Most R.O. units also include a pre and post filter which is carbon. The R.O. water is by far better than any bottled water you have ever tasted.