Kerry's Navy files
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Kerry's Navy files
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
November 1, 2004
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/4040
A former officer in the Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve has
built a case that Senator Kerry was other than honorably discharged from
the Navy by 1975, The New York Sun has learned.
The "honorable discharge" on the Kerry Web site appears to be a Carter
administration substitute for an original action expunged from Mr. Kerry's
record, according to Mark Sullivan, who retired as a captain in the Navy's
Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve in 2003 after 33 years of service as a
judge advocate. Mr. Sullivan served in the office of the Secretary of the
Navy between 1975 and 1977.
On behalf of the Kerry campaign, Michael Meehan and others have repeatedly
insisted that all of Mr. Kerry's military records are on his Web site
atjohnkerry.com, except for his medical records.
"If that is the case," Mr. Sullivan said, "the true story isn't what was on
the Web site. It's what's missing. There should have been an honorable
discharge certificate issued to Kerry in 1975,if not earlier, three years
after his transfer to the Standby Reserve-Inactive."
Another retired Navy Reserve officer, who served three tours in the Navy's
Bureau of Personnel, points out that there should also have been a
certified letter giving Mr. Kerry a choice of a reserve reaffiliation or
separation and discharge. If Mr. Meehan is correct and all the documents
are indeed on the Web site, the absence of any documents from 1972 to 1978
in the posted Kerry files is a glaring hole in the record.
The applicable U.S. Navy regulation, now found at MILPERSMAN 1920-210
"Types of Discharge for Officers," lists five examples of conditions
required to receive an honorable discharge certificate, four required to
receive a general discharge "not of such a nature as to require discharge
under conditions other than honorable," and seven for "the lowest type of
separation from the naval service. It is now officially in all respects
equivalent to a dishonorable discharge."
Kerry spokesmen have also repeatedly said that the senator has an honorable
discharge. And there is indeed a cover letter to an honorable discharge
dated February 16,1978,on the Kerry Web site. It is in form and reference
to regulation exactly the same as one granted Swiftboat Veterans for Truth
member Robert Shirley on March 12, 1971, during a periodic "reduction in
force (RIF)" by the Naval Reserve. The only significant difference between
Mr. Kerry's and Mr. Shirley's is the signature information and the dates.
In a RIF, officers who no longer have skills or are of an age group the
Navy wishes to keep in reserve are involuntarily separated by the Navy and
given their appropriate discharge. This is a normal and ongoing activity
and there is no stigma attached to it.
Kerry spokesman David Wade did not reply when asked if Mr. Kerry was other
than honorably discharged before he was honorably discharged.
"Mr. Meehan may well be right and all Mr. Kerry's military records are on
his Web site," Mr. Sullivan said. "Unlike en listed members, officers do
not receive other than honorable, or dishonorable, certificates of
discharge. To the contrary, the rule is that no certificate will be awarded
to an officer separated wherever the circumstances prompting separation are
not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of honor. The absence
of an honorable discharge certificate for a separated naval officer is,
therefore, a harsh and severe sanction and is, in fact, the treatment given
officers who are dismissed after a general court-martial."
With the only discharge document cited by Mr. Kerry issued in 1978, three
years after the last date it should have been issued, the absence of a
certificate from 1975 leaves only two possibilities. Either Mr. Kerry
received an "other than honorable" certificate that has been removed in a
review purging it from his records, or even worse, he received no
certificate at all. In both cases there would have been a loss of all of
Mr. Kerry's medals and the suspension of all benefits of service.
Certainly something was wrong as early as 1973 when Mr. Kerry was applying
to law school.
Mr. Kerry has said, "I applied to Harvard, Boston University, and Boston
College. I was extremely late. Only BC would entertain a late application."
It is hard to see why Mr. Kerry had to file an "extremely late" application
since he lost the congressional race in Lowell, Mass., the first week of
November 1972 and was basically doing nothing until he entered law school
the following September of 1973.A member of the Harvard Law School
admissions committee recalled that the real reason Mr. Kerry was not
admitted was because the committee was concerned that because Mr. Kerry had
received a less than honorable discharge they were not sure he could be
admitted to any state bar.
The fact that Mr. Kerry had cancelled his candidacy for a Congressional
seat in 1970 in favor of Father Robert Drinan cannot have hurt Mr. Kerry's
admission to Boston College. The Reverend Robert Drinan's previous position
was dean of the Boston College Law School.
Given this, it is likely that a legal review took place that effectively
purged Mr. Kerry's Navy files and arranged for the three-year-late
honorable discharge in 1978.There were two avenues during the 1977-1978
time period. This could have been under President Carter's Executive Order
11967, under which thousands received pardons and upgrades for harsh
discharges or other offenses under the Selective Service Act. Or it might
have merged into efforts by the military to comply with the demands of the
1975 Church Committee. Mr. Sullivan was personally involved in the 1976 and
1977 records review answering Senator Kennedy's demands to determine the
scope of any counterintelligence abuses by the military.
In the Foreign Surveillance Act of 1977, legislation introduced by Mr.
Kennedy to enforce the findings of the Church Committee, there is language
that literally describes the behavior of Mr. Kerry. The defined behavior
that could no longer be subject to surveillance without warrants includes:
"Americans having contact with foreign powers in the case of Americans who
were active in the protest against U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Some of
them may have attended international conferences at which there were
representatives of foreign powers, as defined in the bill, or may have been
directly in communication with foreign governments concerning this issue."
One of Mr. Kerry's first acts of office as he entered the Senate on January
3, 1985, was making sure what was still in the Navy files. A report was
returned to Mr. Kerry by a Navy JAG on January 25, 1985, and appears on the
Kerry Web site. There is an enclosure listed that may have contained a list
of files, according to David Myers, the JAG who prepared it, that is not on
Mr. Kerry's Web site. It could have provided an index for all of Mr.
Kerry's Navy files.
All officials with knowledge of what specifically happened in Mr. Kerry's
case are muzzled by the Privacy Act of 1974.The act makes it a crime for
federal employees to knowingly disclose personal information or records.
Only Mr. Kerry can do that. As of this writing, Mr. Kerry has failed to
sign a Standard Form 180 giving the electorate and the press access to his
Navy files.
November 1, 2004 Edition
November 1, 2004
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/4040
A former officer in the Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve has
built a case that Senator Kerry was other than honorably discharged from
the Navy by 1975, The New York Sun has learned.
The "honorable discharge" on the Kerry Web site appears to be a Carter
administration substitute for an original action expunged from Mr. Kerry's
record, according to Mark Sullivan, who retired as a captain in the Navy's
Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve in 2003 after 33 years of service as a
judge advocate. Mr. Sullivan served in the office of the Secretary of the
Navy between 1975 and 1977.
On behalf of the Kerry campaign, Michael Meehan and others have repeatedly
insisted that all of Mr. Kerry's military records are on his Web site
atjohnkerry.com, except for his medical records.
"If that is the case," Mr. Sullivan said, "the true story isn't what was on
the Web site. It's what's missing. There should have been an honorable
discharge certificate issued to Kerry in 1975,if not earlier, three years
after his transfer to the Standby Reserve-Inactive."
Another retired Navy Reserve officer, who served three tours in the Navy's
Bureau of Personnel, points out that there should also have been a
certified letter giving Mr. Kerry a choice of a reserve reaffiliation or
separation and discharge. If Mr. Meehan is correct and all the documents
are indeed on the Web site, the absence of any documents from 1972 to 1978
in the posted Kerry files is a glaring hole in the record.
The applicable U.S. Navy regulation, now found at MILPERSMAN 1920-210
"Types of Discharge for Officers," lists five examples of conditions
required to receive an honorable discharge certificate, four required to
receive a general discharge "not of such a nature as to require discharge
under conditions other than honorable," and seven for "the lowest type of
separation from the naval service. It is now officially in all respects
equivalent to a dishonorable discharge."
Kerry spokesmen have also repeatedly said that the senator has an honorable
discharge. And there is indeed a cover letter to an honorable discharge
dated February 16,1978,on the Kerry Web site. It is in form and reference
to regulation exactly the same as one granted Swiftboat Veterans for Truth
member Robert Shirley on March 12, 1971, during a periodic "reduction in
force (RIF)" by the Naval Reserve. The only significant difference between
Mr. Kerry's and Mr. Shirley's is the signature information and the dates.
In a RIF, officers who no longer have skills or are of an age group the
Navy wishes to keep in reserve are involuntarily separated by the Navy and
given their appropriate discharge. This is a normal and ongoing activity
and there is no stigma attached to it.
Kerry spokesman David Wade did not reply when asked if Mr. Kerry was other
than honorably discharged before he was honorably discharged.
"Mr. Meehan may well be right and all Mr. Kerry's military records are on
his Web site," Mr. Sullivan said. "Unlike en listed members, officers do
not receive other than honorable, or dishonorable, certificates of
discharge. To the contrary, the rule is that no certificate will be awarded
to an officer separated wherever the circumstances prompting separation are
not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of honor. The absence
of an honorable discharge certificate for a separated naval officer is,
therefore, a harsh and severe sanction and is, in fact, the treatment given
officers who are dismissed after a general court-martial."
With the only discharge document cited by Mr. Kerry issued in 1978, three
years after the last date it should have been issued, the absence of a
certificate from 1975 leaves only two possibilities. Either Mr. Kerry
received an "other than honorable" certificate that has been removed in a
review purging it from his records, or even worse, he received no
certificate at all. In both cases there would have been a loss of all of
Mr. Kerry's medals and the suspension of all benefits of service.
Certainly something was wrong as early as 1973 when Mr. Kerry was applying
to law school.
Mr. Kerry has said, "I applied to Harvard, Boston University, and Boston
College. I was extremely late. Only BC would entertain a late application."
It is hard to see why Mr. Kerry had to file an "extremely late" application
since he lost the congressional race in Lowell, Mass., the first week of
November 1972 and was basically doing nothing until he entered law school
the following September of 1973.A member of the Harvard Law School
admissions committee recalled that the real reason Mr. Kerry was not
admitted was because the committee was concerned that because Mr. Kerry had
received a less than honorable discharge they were not sure he could be
admitted to any state bar.
The fact that Mr. Kerry had cancelled his candidacy for a Congressional
seat in 1970 in favor of Father Robert Drinan cannot have hurt Mr. Kerry's
admission to Boston College. The Reverend Robert Drinan's previous position
was dean of the Boston College Law School.
Given this, it is likely that a legal review took place that effectively
purged Mr. Kerry's Navy files and arranged for the three-year-late
honorable discharge in 1978.There were two avenues during the 1977-1978
time period. This could have been under President Carter's Executive Order
11967, under which thousands received pardons and upgrades for harsh
discharges or other offenses under the Selective Service Act. Or it might
have merged into efforts by the military to comply with the demands of the
1975 Church Committee. Mr. Sullivan was personally involved in the 1976 and
1977 records review answering Senator Kennedy's demands to determine the
scope of any counterintelligence abuses by the military.
In the Foreign Surveillance Act of 1977, legislation introduced by Mr.
Kennedy to enforce the findings of the Church Committee, there is language
that literally describes the behavior of Mr. Kerry. The defined behavior
that could no longer be subject to surveillance without warrants includes:
"Americans having contact with foreign powers in the case of Americans who
were active in the protest against U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Some of
them may have attended international conferences at which there were
representatives of foreign powers, as defined in the bill, or may have been
directly in communication with foreign governments concerning this issue."
One of Mr. Kerry's first acts of office as he entered the Senate on January
3, 1985, was making sure what was still in the Navy files. A report was
returned to Mr. Kerry by a Navy JAG on January 25, 1985, and appears on the
Kerry Web site. There is an enclosure listed that may have contained a list
of files, according to David Myers, the JAG who prepared it, that is not on
Mr. Kerry's Web site. It could have provided an index for all of Mr.
Kerry's Navy files.
All officials with knowledge of what specifically happened in Mr. Kerry's
case are muzzled by the Privacy Act of 1974.The act makes it a crime for
federal employees to knowingly disclose personal information or records.
Only Mr. Kerry can do that. As of this writing, Mr. Kerry has failed to
sign a Standard Form 180 giving the electorate and the press access to his
Navy files.
November 1, 2004 Edition
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,919
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From: Western Massachusetts
This issue has been talked about for quite some time now. I guess there are something like thirty pages that haven't been relesed by Kerry. If there is something negetive in those files he should have talked to Dan Rather. Rather could have got him some documents that said something favorable about him.
What is all this about media bias?
What is all this about media bias?
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From: Poway, SoCal
Originally posted by buckdropper
Look the guy went over to fight and did enough said!!!
Look the guy went over to fight and did enough said!!!
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From: south western NYS Latitude: 42.34 N, Longitude: 78.46 W
Originally posted by Bullitt4711
Thats bs. The guy was a coward over there. Got a boo-boo and wanted a purple heart. The guy has no morals and no integrity. And service to our country is great, but just because you were in the military does not mean it is honerable. And Kerry "fight"??? LMAO!
Thats bs. The guy was a coward over there. Got a boo-boo and wanted a purple heart. The guy has no morals and no integrity. And service to our country is great, but just because you were in the military does not mean it is honerable. And Kerry "fight"??? LMAO!
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From: south western NYS Latitude: 42.34 N, Longitude: 78.46 W
Originally posted by Green_98
**off topic**
Buckdropper::nice sig, but when am i gunna see those straight pipes out the back of that clean truck...
**off topic**
Buckdropper::nice sig, but when am i gunna see those straight pipes out the back of that clean truck...
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Posts: 1,406
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From: Poway, SoCal
Your opinion: "every son of a b**** that stepped on that soil for whatever reason should have a purple heart."
Fact: Not every individual over in Vietnam was honerable. There was much lacking in the character and morals of some.
I am not going to argue with you over the issue. You have your "beliefs" and I am not going to attempt to change them. I am also not going to attempt to take away from any soilder who fought with dignity, honor and integirty over in Vietnam. But I will tell you this fact. Kerry was not one of them.
Fact: Not every individual over in Vietnam was honerable. There was much lacking in the character and morals of some.
I am not going to argue with you over the issue. You have your "beliefs" and I am not going to attempt to change them. I am also not going to attempt to take away from any soilder who fought with dignity, honor and integirty over in Vietnam. But I will tell you this fact. Kerry was not one of them.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 918
Likes: 0
From: south western NYS Latitude: 42.34 N, Longitude: 78.46 W
Originally posted by Bullitt4711
Your opinion: "every son of a b**** that stepped on that soil for whatever reason should have a purple heart."
Fact: Not every individual over in Vietnam was honerable. There was much lacking in the character and morals of some.
I am not going to argue with you over the issue. You have your "beliefs" and I am not going to attempt to change them. I am also not going to attempt to take away from any soilder who fought with dignity, honor and integirty over in Vietnam. But I will tell you this fact. Kerry was not one of them.
Your opinion: "every son of a b**** that stepped on that soil for whatever reason should have a purple heart."
Fact: Not every individual over in Vietnam was honerable. There was much lacking in the character and morals of some.
I am not going to argue with you over the issue. You have your "beliefs" and I am not going to attempt to change them. I am also not going to attempt to take away from any soilder who fought with dignity, honor and integirty over in Vietnam. But I will tell you this fact. Kerry was not one of them.
And bush was right bro you are an ***.