Hey Burt
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From: the moral high ground
i will vouch for this guy.
Burt has different political outlook from me but he is a decent human being.
he plays to win ok.
he will admit he buries you with verbage but, I say that effort is worth something.
he represents a viewpoint shared by many here, i can live with that.
I say viva la burt (not what you say but who you are)
now Frank S, that's another story.
(j/k, luv ya Frank)
Burt has different political outlook from me but he is a decent human being.
he plays to win ok.
he will admit he buries you with verbage but, I say that effort is worth something.
he represents a viewpoint shared by many here, i can live with that.
I say viva la burt (not what you say but who you are)
now Frank S, that's another story.
(j/k, luv ya Frank)
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
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From: NH
Originally posted by BrewMaster
i am sick and tired of all your bull***** and how right you think you are. i don't think your arrogant tone will change, but how about you put up or shut up. prove to us that they found WMD in Iraq since we went to war and tore that country to shreds.
i am sick and tired of all your bull***** and how right you think you are. i don't think your arrogant tone will change, but how about you put up or shut up. prove to us that they found WMD in Iraq since we went to war and tore that country to shreds.
"They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account when he made his weapons declaration shortly before Operation Iraqi Freedom began last year. Iraq also failed to then account for 450 aerial bombs with mustard gas. That, combined with the shells, totaled about 80 tons of unaccounted for mustard gas.'
Who ever said the point was made that Iraq had current WMD’S from 2001 or 2003? I haven’t heard that information. Nobody EVER stated dates of the WMD’S just the FACT that Iraq had them PERIOD!
It goes, once again, to prove that liberals can’t even believe what has been laid out for them by other liberals (Clinton). Liberals had stated that Iraq had WMD'S, see their quotes in my other post, and now their stating there was NO WMD’S and now they find themselves in a corner…
Kerry told you Iraq HAD WMD’S then he states they don’t have any WMD’S but remember Kerry is famous for this quote:
”I voted for the $87 billion dollars before I voted against the $87 billion dollars”
Last edited by 01 XLT Sport; Jul 2, 2004 at 04:28 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,278
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From: Pasadena, CA
Originally posted by 01 XLT Sport
Here you go…
Who ever said the point was made that Iraq had current WMD’S from 2001 or 2003? I haven’t heard that information. Nobody EVER stated dates and qualities of the WMD’S just the FACT that Iraq had them PERIOD!
It goes, once again, to prove that liberals can’t even believe what has been laid out for them by other liberals (Clinton). Liberals have been stating there was NO WMD’S and now they find themselves in a corner…
Kerry told you Iraq HAD WMD’S then he states they don’t have any WMD’S but remember Kerry is famous for this quote:
”I voted for the $87 billion dollars before I voted against the $87 billion dollars”
Here you go…
Who ever said the point was made that Iraq had current WMD’S from 2001 or 2003? I haven’t heard that information. Nobody EVER stated dates and qualities of the WMD’S just the FACT that Iraq had them PERIOD!
It goes, once again, to prove that liberals can’t even believe what has been laid out for them by other liberals (Clinton). Liberals have been stating there was NO WMD’S and now they find themselves in a corner…
Kerry told you Iraq HAD WMD’S then he states they don’t have any WMD’S but remember Kerry is famous for this quote:
”I voted for the $87 billion dollars before I voted against the $87 billion dollars”
Two people were treated for "minor exposure" after the sarin incident but no serious injuries were reported.
The round detonated before it would be rendered inoperable, Kimmitt said, which caused a "very small dispersal of agent."
The round detonated before it would be rendered inoperable, Kimmitt said, which caused a "very small dispersal of agent."
Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group — a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction — and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."
from Dictionary.com:
adj.
1. Of, relating to, characteristic of, directed at, or attended by a large number of people: mass education; mass communication.
2. Done or carried out on a large scale: mass production.
3. Total; complete: The mass result is impressive.
one two stage Sarin shell (which by the way is discarded technology from the mid 60's) and one shell that might be one of 550 (which Bush can't find) does not amount to the challenge I put out. for those who do not know, the two stage Sarin technology is basically useless. it gets the reaction generates Sarin gas but it gets so hot it degrades the Sarin and makes it useless.
Here is an article from a chenistry magazine I get about chemical analysis from that shell.
Wow, I am glad we sent 130,000 American lives over there to find a weapon you make in your garage that is not even a weapon. Bang up job you did ol' GW. Not when Colin Powel went before the UN and talked about stockpiles of weapons ready to be used. Not when GW talked about uranium and launching weapons in 45 minutes (which both turned out to be false and the Bush admin admitted it).
Bottom line is that Bush is responsible for putting American soldiers in their graves because he acted on poor info. You can rail all you want on the Democrats and I'll be glad to join you because they were not much better, but please join us in reality and realize that Bush F'd up and our soldiers should not have been sent over there for 2 harmless shells. Where's the rest? Where are the stockpiles of weapons, even if they are ancient weapons?
Thread Starter
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From: Massachusetts
Actually 01, you have to admit that Bush did build up the WMD side of reasoning more than what we may ever find. Bush did say that Saddam had current operations. We haven't found anything current. I know that Germany has produced U-boats, and mass-murdered millions of people, and I can prove it, but they haven't done it recently. We all know what Saddam HAS done in the past. We all know how he was put into power in the first place. We all know where he first got chemical weapons and the training to use them. We haven't found proof that he was doing any of that now. I think this is a deciding factor in opinions on the war and trust of the President. Even Wolfowitz admits the WMD's was decided on. (I kept this civil, it'll be to your credit if the reply, if any, is the same)
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. "
Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003
"It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."
Lt. Gen. James Conway
1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003
"DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still.
PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference? "
George W. Bush, President
Diane Sawyer Interviews President Bush.
12/16/2003
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. "
Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003
"It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."
Lt. Gen. James Conway
1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003
"DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still.
PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference? "
George W. Bush, President
Diane Sawyer Interviews President Bush.
12/16/2003
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,278
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena, CA
let me just line it all up so you don't have to look too far to know that you are wrong. whether you admit it is another story.
Originally posted by 01 XLT Sport
Nobody EVER stated dates of the WMD’S just the FACT that Iraq had them PERIOD!
Nobody EVER stated dates of the WMD’S just the FACT that Iraq had them PERIOD!
Originally posted by momalle1
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. "
Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003
"It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."
Lt. Gen. James Conway
1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003
"DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still.
PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference? "
George W. Bush, President
Diane Sawyer Interviews President Bush.
12/16/2003
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. "
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. "
Paul Wolfowitz
Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003
"It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."
Lt. Gen. James Conway
1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003
"DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still.
PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference? "
George W. Bush, President
Diane Sawyer Interviews President Bush.
12/16/2003
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
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From: NH
BrewMaster:
That there sums up my point about there were NO dates mentioned on when the weapons were from. Key word is Stockpiled
Anyhow I answered your challenge and PROVED you wrong.
Your original post was:
So I proved it and now that you too are backed into a corner you revert to hysteria to move the focus of the point made into something else. It does NOT matter how much or how many WMD’S were found. You asked me to prove they found WMD’S and I proved that point, case CLOSED, end of debate…
Don’t get so emotional about being wrong. We are all wrong at times in our life, even including me, just not very often because I “try” my best to do my homework first rather then responding out of emotion…
momalle1:
I will admit I wished we had found what EVERYBODY had stated Saddam had. Everyone including Bill Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, and the vast majority of the democrats as well as the vast majority of republicans. EVERYBODY was stating the same facts they had over and over. First Clinton with the same intelligence he passed on to President Bush, from the same sources.
What more can be said about this issue, the entire free world made the same statement of facts as did Clinton and then President Bush. Both parties were in FULL agreement to the fact there were WMD’S in Iraq, there was NO question in ANYONE’S mind at the time.
There very well could be many more WMD’S in Iraq that may not get found for years and then there may be no more at all. None of us know either to be a fact at this time but the fact that little has been found is a disappointment and a failure of the entire free world and the vast majority of democrats and republicans who were ALL on the SAME page when it came to what they “believed” was reality.
Again, we do not know what the future will hold in finding WMD’S or if they were moved where they may have been moved to. The fact of the matter is Saddam himself admitted to having WMD’S. Could he have been lying about that? He very well may have but again we will NOT know the facts for years to come.
I don’t know why some people get so upset, not yourself because you are a reasonable person, but some liberals get so upset when proven wrong time and time again. It is as if the truth is a nasty thing in life. To these liberals I say the truth will set you free…
” "Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have”
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002
Anyhow I answered your challenge and PROVED you wrong.
Your original post was:
” prove to us that they found WMD in Iraq since we went to war”
Don’t get so emotional about being wrong. We are all wrong at times in our life, even including me, just not very often because I “try” my best to do my homework first rather then responding out of emotion…
momalle1:
I will admit I wished we had found what EVERYBODY had stated Saddam had. Everyone including Bill Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, and the vast majority of the democrats as well as the vast majority of republicans. EVERYBODY was stating the same facts they had over and over. First Clinton with the same intelligence he passed on to President Bush, from the same sources.
What more can be said about this issue, the entire free world made the same statement of facts as did Clinton and then President Bush. Both parties were in FULL agreement to the fact there were WMD’S in Iraq, there was NO question in ANYONE’S mind at the time.
There very well could be many more WMD’S in Iraq that may not get found for years and then there may be no more at all. None of us know either to be a fact at this time but the fact that little has been found is a disappointment and a failure of the entire free world and the vast majority of democrats and republicans who were ALL on the SAME page when it came to what they “believed” was reality.
Again, we do not know what the future will hold in finding WMD’S or if they were moved where they may have been moved to. The fact of the matter is Saddam himself admitted to having WMD’S. Could he have been lying about that? He very well may have but again we will NOT know the facts for years to come.
I don’t know why some people get so upset, not yourself because you are a reasonable person, but some liberals get so upset when proven wrong time and time again. It is as if the truth is a nasty thing in life. To these liberals I say the truth will set you free…
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Senior Member
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From: Massachusetts
01, I have to take exception about the dates. In 2002, Bush clearly says the words, rebuilding, expanding and improving, produces, those are all current tense. To be honest, I don't think Bush ever felt Saddam was doing anything current, I think he just wanted Saddam and would twist anything, without actual stating anything, to get his way. "No fingerprint" in President Bushes own words.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
From: NH
Originally posted by momalle1
01, I have to take exception about the dates. In 2002, Bush clearly says the words, rebuilding, expanding and improving, produces, those are all current tense. To be honest, I don't think Bush ever felt Saddam was doing anything current, I think he just wanted Saddam and would twist anything, without actual stating anything, to get his way. "No fingerprint" in President Bushes own words.
01, I have to take exception about the dates. In 2002, Bush clearly says the words, rebuilding, expanding and improving, produces, those are all current tense. To be honest, I don't think Bush ever felt Saddam was doing anything current, I think he just wanted Saddam and would twist anything, without actual stating anything, to get his way. "No fingerprint" in President Bushes own words.
Clinton also made those statements in his arguments as well, so in being fair and just to both men they both made statements that “may” have not be correct, however they have yet to be proven wrong.
I do not think President Bush “intentional” mislead the American people, nor do I think Clinton mislead the American people in his “same” statements about Iraq…
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,278
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From: Pasadena, CA
Originally posted by BrewMaster
prove to us that they found WMD in Iraq since we went to war and tore that country to shreds. not that they had WMDs 5 or 10 years ago, but that the result of us going to war was finding the WMDs we claimed they had in the months leading up to the war. go on, prove it. no excuses, no crap about "well BrewMaster you are just a small minded liberal who doesn't understand...blah...blah...blah." No personal attacks on me for asking you to put up your evidence, just prove it. No BS, no commentary, just proof. We're all interested to see.
prove to us that they found WMD in Iraq since we went to war and tore that country to shreds. not that they had WMDs 5 or 10 years ago, but that the result of us going to war was finding the WMDs we claimed they had in the months leading up to the war. go on, prove it. no excuses, no crap about "well BrewMaster you are just a small minded liberal who doesn't understand...blah...blah...blah." No personal attacks on me for asking you to put up your evidence, just prove it. No BS, no commentary, just proof. We're all interested to see.
If they find the stockpiles they were talking about then I will shut up on this point and send you some Omaha steaks for your enjoyment. (I'd love to dine with you, but we're seperated by a few too many miles). But quite honestly it doesn't appear to be likely.
I think this war was wrong no matter who led us into it. If you want to blame Clinton be my guest, I don't care who's fault it is.
The bottom line is that we have 130,000+ troops over there and all we've come up with is one shell we found and one shell that someone tried to use to kill Americans. That is the lowest bang for your buck that you can get. Pretty weak. I want our troops home.