Bush Appeases North Korea with Aid
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Bush Appeases North Korea with Aid
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5270973/
BEIJING - U.S. negotiators presented the first detailed American proposal Wednesday on resolving the standoff with North Korea, offering the North energy aid and a security guarantee in exchange for dismantling its nuclear weapons program.
Hmm Aid and Energy Resources. Just add this to our deficit...
So what exactly did Bush get out of all this? Yea, Under Clinton we gave them aid, but we also at least had all of their nuclear material under lock and key with live video coverage of it.
Bush let them open the sealed containers, sell off some nuke material to who knows who, and now we're Right back where we started. Giving them Aid, fuel and Appeasement...
I'm sure Appeasement is OK now that Bush is doing it...
BEIJING - U.S. negotiators presented the first detailed American proposal Wednesday on resolving the standoff with North Korea, offering the North energy aid and a security guarantee in exchange for dismantling its nuclear weapons program.
Hmm Aid and Energy Resources. Just add this to our deficit...
So what exactly did Bush get out of all this? Yea, Under Clinton we gave them aid, but we also at least had all of their nuclear material under lock and key with live video coverage of it.
Bush let them open the sealed containers, sell off some nuke material to who knows who, and now we're Right back where we started. Giving them Aid, fuel and Appeasement...
I'm sure Appeasement is OK now that Bush is doing it...
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From: Rochester NY
Appeasement sucks no matter who is doing it, say Clinton to terrorists or China or Bush to N. Korea. Anytime you stick your head in the sand it will come back to bite you in the a$$ that is for sure. I wish we wuld take a harder line with the North Koreans but at the moment we are stretched pretty thin militarily. I'm not going to get into the right and wrong of the Iraq war with you since I think that we will have to agree to respectfully disagree. I like you bringing a different perspective to the discussions here, god knows someone has to do it but allow me to say that Bush isn't the devil (as some would portray him, neither was Clinton for that matter) they are both just men who have the hardest job in the world and have to make tough decisions everyday with ramifications bigger than I can comprehend. I might not vote for Bush in november but since he is the president I'll give the man some respect and the benefit of the doubt, just like i'll do the same for Kerry if he gets elected and I did for Clinton, even if I happen to disagree with their means and philosophies. Anyway, i know I'm full of it and probably sound pompous and call me a closet Bush supporter if you will but just my $0.02.
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From: NH
First one MUST read the WHOLE story before they make FALSE statements…
America is NOT doing anything first to appease North Korea until they make a move. Also North Korea MUST do what they agree to for at least 3 months before they get ANYTHING…
Just read.
In other words North Korea does what we and the other nations tell them to do OR NO RESPONSE from us.
In other words North Korea is scared of us “actually” doing something about their actions to develop nuclear weapons UNLIKE Clinton.
That was the Clinton appeasement policy, ”Sure we will let you continue to lie to us about your true reasons for nuclear power, we won’t ask so you don’t tell”
Looks like North Korea is trying to see if President Bush will do what Clinton did so he could move on to other activities in the Oval Office…
Please tell me how this is appeasement as compared to Clinton’s policy of ”Don’t ask, don’t tell…”?
The step-by-step plan would begin with Pyongyang freezing its nuclear program for a three-month period to prepare for dismantling, during which it would list all nuclear activities and allow monitoring of its facilities, U.S. officials said.
‘A practical series of steps’
“What we will be presenting is a practical series of steps to achieve the complete, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement of North Korea’s nuclear program,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said, traveling with President Bush in Philadelphia.
“What we will be presenting is a practical series of steps to achieve the complete, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement of North Korea’s nuclear program,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said, traveling with President Bush in Philadelphia.
“One way to look at this is to look at the Libya model: Good-faith action on North Korea’s part will be met with good-faith response by the other parties,” he said.
Under the proposal, the United States and the other four nations participating in the talks — South Korea, China, Japan, Russia and the United States — would give North Korea “provisional security guarantees” while the nuclear dismantling work is carried out, according to the American officials.
The dispute erupted in late 2002 when Washington said North Korea admitted operating a secret nuclear program in violation of a 1994 agreement. Under that deal, the United States was providing the North with fuel and helping build nuclear reactors for energy production — help that has since been halted.
But North Korea also demanded that Washington withdraw its call for a complete and irreversible dismantling of its nuclear program, casting doubt on hopes for a breakthrough during the talks.
Please tell me how this is appeasement as compared to Clinton’s policy of ”Don’t ask, don’t tell…”?
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From: NH
Re: Bush Appeases North Korea with Aid
Originally posted by BHibbs
So what exactly did Bush get out of all this? Yea, Under Clinton we gave them aid, but we also at least had all of their nuclear material under lock and key with live video coverage of it.
Bush let them open the sealed containers, sell off some nuke material to who knows who, and now we're Right back where we started. Giving them Aid, fuel and Appeasement...
So what exactly did Bush get out of all this? Yea, Under Clinton we gave them aid, but we also at least had all of their nuclear material under lock and key with live video coverage of it.
Bush let them open the sealed containers, sell off some nuke material to who knows who, and now we're Right back where we started. Giving them Aid, fuel and Appeasement...
Anyway, lets correct the record “once again” shall we?
First, what did President Bush get out of this? Well if it goes through the way I currently understand it there will be no more nuclear development in North Korea, nothing for the next President to have to clean up like President Bush has had to do because of Clinton. That's a damn big accomplishment if you ask me…
Second, Clinton did NOT have North Korea’s nuclear material under lock and key with live video. We have NO idea what was going on in North Korea. Sure they had a few video cameras but North Korea knew they could basically do what ever they felt like when Clinton was in office because he was weak…
Third, President Bush did NOT let them open sealed containers of anything. North Korea did that without anyone’s permission. Remember if Clinton had done and carried out his job “properly” there would have been NO sealed containers of nuclear material for North Korea to open…
Thanks once again for reminding America just how swell of a job Clinton did as President and how STILL today we are cleaning up his messes he left behind.
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Ohh... So NK has to do something First, Then we'll appease them. 
Clinton had inspectors, close circuit video, etc. Nuke material was monitored and in UN sealed containers. Whatever he had it was a LOT more than NO inspectors, Video, etc which we've had for the Last two years.
Under Bush, NK threw out inspectors:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/as...ea.expulsions/
Please read the truth. 2002, Who was president then???? The the "inspectors" and "video surveilance" CNN talks about is Not true??? They Never existed??? You make it too easy for me to disprove you.
Bush let this thing spiral out of control Under HIS watch. Clinton was at least making strides to fix the situation. Fixing it the EXACT same way Bush is NOW proposing to do.
Now, under Bush, NK has had TWO years to FREELY distribute their nuke material with NO monitors on the ground there. Nothing. Talk about "don't ask, don't tell"......
And it seems we've made full circle and are back where Clinton left us. Well, not quite, Bush still has to gather all the fuel rods, get inspectors to their facilities, install surveilance monitors, etc.....
I get it now though. It's not "Appeasement". It's now "Response" ...
Clinton had inspectors, close circuit video, etc. Nuke material was monitored and in UN sealed containers. Whatever he had it was a LOT more than NO inspectors, Video, etc which we've had for the Last two years.
Under Bush, NK threw out inspectors:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/as...ea.expulsions/
Please read the truth. 2002, Who was president then???? The the "inspectors" and "video surveilance" CNN talks about is Not true??? They Never existed??? You make it too easy for me to disprove you.
Bush let this thing spiral out of control Under HIS watch. Clinton was at least making strides to fix the situation. Fixing it the EXACT same way Bush is NOW proposing to do.
Now, under Bush, NK has had TWO years to FREELY distribute their nuke material with NO monitors on the ground there. Nothing. Talk about "don't ask, don't tell"......
And it seems we've made full circle and are back where Clinton left us. Well, not quite, Bush still has to gather all the fuel rods, get inspectors to their facilities, install surveilance monitors, etc.....
I get it now though. It's not "Appeasement". It's now "Response" ...
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From: NH
Yes, under Clinton we had great controls over North Korea. However a Congressional report would state otherwise, but hey, what do they know over CNN?
This report is from Oct. 1999 while Clinton was still in office.
Note, when the report, in the quote above mentions “over the past 5 years” they are talking 1994 to 1999 (date of the report). In other words right after Clinton began to “appease” the North Koreans they became and continued to become a BIGGER threat…
There is a lot more goodies in the report that I have a link for at the bottom. So once again we have to clean up another fine mess Clinton left behind on his watch and most likely knew about but never told the American public…
”Don’t ask, don’t tell” Bill Clinton’s legacy
North Korea Advisory Group Report to the Speaker U.S. House of Representatives Oct. 1999
This report is from Oct. 1999 while Clinton was still in office.
” Dear Mr. Speaker:
We are pleased to transmit to you our report, which answers the question: Does North Korea pose a greater threat to U.S. national security than it did five years ago? In sum, we found that the comprehensive threat posed by North Korea to our national security has increased since 1994. Our report contains an executive summary.”
We are pleased to transmit to you our report, which answers the question: Does North Korea pose a greater threat to U.S. national security than it did five years ago? In sum, we found that the comprehensive threat posed by North Korea to our national security has increased since 1994. Our report contains an executive summary.”
” U.S. assistance sustains a repressive and authoritarian regime, and is not effectively monitored.”
” North Korea's WMD programs pose a major threat to the United States and its allies. This threat has advanced considerably over the past five years, particularly with the enhancement of North Korea's missile capabilities. There is significant evidence that undeclared nuclear weapons development activity continues, including efforts to acquire uranium enrichment technologies and recent nuclear-related high explosive tests. This means that the United States cannot discount the possibility that North Korea could produce additional nuclear weapons outside of the constraints imposed by the 1994 Agreed Framework.”
There is a lot more goodies in the report that I have a link for at the bottom. So once again we have to clean up another fine mess Clinton left behind on his watch and most likely knew about but never told the American public…
”Don’t ask, don’t tell” Bill Clinton’s legacy
North Korea Advisory Group Report to the Speaker U.S. House of Representatives Oct. 1999
Last edited by 01 XLT Sport; Jun 23, 2004 at 04:57 PM.
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From: NH
What the heck, a few more goodies from the report I sighted in my above post…
Thanks, Bill I am sure North Korea is a happy camper that you helped them with their nuke program like you did their good friends China…
See what happens when you do not do your job “completely”.
Don’t you think they overlooked a major problem there? ”Ahhh you can’t reprocess the fuel rods, but we really don’t care if you have them, keep them where ever you like, oh don’t put them where any cameras may see them…”
Billy, ”Don’t worry fellows, we trust you because you signed the paper, we trust you, don’t ask, don’t tell…”
There is a lot more great information in that report, take a look if interested…
” Through the provision of two light water reactors (LWRs) under the 1994 Agreed Framework, the United States, through KEDO, will provide North Korea with the capacity to produce annually enough fissile material for nearly 100 nuclear bombs, should the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) decide to violate the Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).”
” The 1994 Agreed Framework froze North Korea's declared nuclear program, but the status of undeclared activities remains a mystery. The administration maintains that North Korea has not violated the 1994 Agreed Framework.(13) However, discovery of undeclared nuclear activity, such as underground nuclear facilities, weaponization, or enrichment activities would be inconsistent with the 1994 Agreed Framework. The 1994 Agreed Framework obligates North Korea to remain a party to the NPT and to eventually come into full compliance with its safeguards agreement.”
” Spent Fuel from the Yongbyon Reactor: The fate of the 8,000 spent fuel rods from the 25 MW reactor at Yongbyon that are being stored in canisters remains unresolved. The 1994 Agreed Framework prohibits reprocessing of the fuel rods, but does not specify where they ultimately will be disposed. The rods contain about 25-30 kilograms of plutonium, enough for four to five bombs if North Korea decides to take action to reprocess them.”
” Spent Fuel from the Two Light Water Reactors: If the 1994 Agreed Framework is implemented and two LWRs are eventually built and operated in North Korea, the reactors could produce close to 500 kilograms of plutonium in spent reactor fuel each year; enough for nearly 100 bombs annually if North Korea decides to break its obligations and reprocess the material.(23) Such plutonium, while not weapons-grade, can be used to produce nuclear weapons and does not present an overwhelming barrier to those pursuing a dedicated nuclear weapons program.”
There is a lot more great information in that report, take a look if interested…
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vs doing Nothing for the last two years like Bush has???
So you're sticking to your guns that we had NO inspectors there? Ok, whatever...
This isn't Appeasement?
Here's the facts without taking everything out of context like you're doing now without know the Entire storey.
North Korea has been attempting to obtain nuclear weapons since the late 1970s. Early attempts involved plutonium produced by heavy water reactor plants, with a plant at Yongbyon completed. By 1994, the United States believed that North Korea had enough reprocessed plutonium to produce about 10 bombs with the amount of plutonium increasing. Faced with diplomatic pressure and the threat of American military airstrikes against the reactor, North Korea agreed to dismantle its plutonium program as part of the Agreed Framework in which South Korea and the United States would provide North Korea with light water reactors and fuel oil until those reactors would be complete. Because the light water reactors would require enriched uranium to be imported from outside North Korea, the amount of reactor fuel and waste could be more easily tracked making it more difficult to divert nuclear waste to be reprocessed into plutonium.
Notice the "threat of Military airstrikes" under the Clinton administration seems to contradict him being week. Anyway...
In October, 2002, North Korea publicly admitted to running a clandestine nuclear weapons program [1]. This was widely seen as a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the 1994 U.S.-North Korea nuclear pact signed during the Clinton administration. North Korean officials stated that the reactivation of their weapon of mass destruction program was in response to "imperialist threats" (presumably the United States). The United States proceeded to stop shipments of fuel oil under the Agreed Framework.
In late December 2002 North Korea expelled United Nations weapons inspectors, and announced plans to reactivate a dormant nuclear fuel processing laboratory and power plant north of Pyongyang, if the United States did not agree to a non invasion pact. This nuclear reactor is thought by U.S. officials to be the source for plutonium for two previously produced atomic bombs.
Once again, Inspectors comes up, yet they NEVER existed according to you...
In a continuing show of force, armed North Korean fighter aircraft intercepted and may have targeted a United States reconnaissance aircraft over International Waters in the Sea of Japan on March 2, 2003. That was the first such interception since April 1969 when a North Korean jet shot down a United States Navy surveillance airplane, killing all 31 crewmen aboard.
On March 6, 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed that the United States is considering completely withdrawing US troops from South Korea.
Yea, Bush had a real STRONG approach. Got pushed around by NK when they intercepted our plane, the said we're considering withdrawing troops.
A far cry from NK being forced into a Nuke pact because of threats of airstrikes by Clinton.
Looks like Bush had Appeasement in mind all along...
http://history.searchbeat.com/north-...ns-program.htm
So you're sticking to your guns that we had NO inspectors there? Ok, whatever...
This isn't Appeasement?
Here's the facts without taking everything out of context like you're doing now without know the Entire storey.
North Korea has been attempting to obtain nuclear weapons since the late 1970s. Early attempts involved plutonium produced by heavy water reactor plants, with a plant at Yongbyon completed. By 1994, the United States believed that North Korea had enough reprocessed plutonium to produce about 10 bombs with the amount of plutonium increasing. Faced with diplomatic pressure and the threat of American military airstrikes against the reactor, North Korea agreed to dismantle its plutonium program as part of the Agreed Framework in which South Korea and the United States would provide North Korea with light water reactors and fuel oil until those reactors would be complete. Because the light water reactors would require enriched uranium to be imported from outside North Korea, the amount of reactor fuel and waste could be more easily tracked making it more difficult to divert nuclear waste to be reprocessed into plutonium.
Notice the "threat of Military airstrikes" under the Clinton administration seems to contradict him being week. Anyway...
In October, 2002, North Korea publicly admitted to running a clandestine nuclear weapons program [1]. This was widely seen as a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the 1994 U.S.-North Korea nuclear pact signed during the Clinton administration. North Korean officials stated that the reactivation of their weapon of mass destruction program was in response to "imperialist threats" (presumably the United States). The United States proceeded to stop shipments of fuel oil under the Agreed Framework.
In late December 2002 North Korea expelled United Nations weapons inspectors, and announced plans to reactivate a dormant nuclear fuel processing laboratory and power plant north of Pyongyang, if the United States did not agree to a non invasion pact. This nuclear reactor is thought by U.S. officials to be the source for plutonium for two previously produced atomic bombs.
Once again, Inspectors comes up, yet they NEVER existed according to you...
In a continuing show of force, armed North Korean fighter aircraft intercepted and may have targeted a United States reconnaissance aircraft over International Waters in the Sea of Japan on March 2, 2003. That was the first such interception since April 1969 when a North Korean jet shot down a United States Navy surveillance airplane, killing all 31 crewmen aboard.
On March 6, 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed that the United States is considering completely withdrawing US troops from South Korea.
Yea, Bush had a real STRONG approach. Got pushed around by NK when they intercepted our plane, the said we're considering withdrawing troops.
A far cry from NK being forced into a Nuke pact because of threats of airstrikes by Clinton.
Looks like Bush had Appeasement in mind all along...
http://history.searchbeat.com/north-...ns-program.htm
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From: Hammer Lane
Originally posted by BHibbs
vs doing Nothing for the last two years like Bush has???
vs doing Nothing for the last two years like Bush has???
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From: NH
It absolutely amazes me just how contradictory the left can be with their arguments…
”America should not be in Iraq, we should not have bombed them, we should not have taken Saddam out, this action in Iraq should include everybody in the world”
”America should be the ONLY one acting on North Korea, we should bomb them, take them out, deal with them militarily.”
So, I ask again my good friends on the left when their heads stop spinning from all the spin they do, WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT IT?
We do it one way and you want it the other way, so we do it the other way and you want to do it the original way.
So, how do we deal with all the Clinton screws ups? Terrorist, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and the list goes on.
We have already taken care of the Clinton recession and over 2 million lost jobs due to Clinton and now have a booming economy not seen since the mid 80’s, President Reagan’s time, you know back when we ENDED the cold war…
”America should not be in Iraq, we should not have bombed them, we should not have taken Saddam out, this action in Iraq should include everybody in the world”
”America should be the ONLY one acting on North Korea, we should bomb them, take them out, deal with them militarily.”
So, I ask again my good friends on the left when their heads stop spinning from all the spin they do, WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT IT?
We do it one way and you want it the other way, so we do it the other way and you want to do it the original way.
So, how do we deal with all the Clinton screws ups? Terrorist, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and the list goes on.
We have already taken care of the Clinton recession and over 2 million lost jobs due to Clinton and now have a booming economy not seen since the mid 80’s, President Reagan’s time, you know back when we ENDED the cold war…
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From: NH
Originally posted by BHibbs
vs doing Nothing for the last two years like Bush has???
So you're sticking to your guns that we had NO inspectors there? Ok, whatever...
This isn't Appeasement?
vs doing Nothing for the last two years like Bush has???
So you're sticking to your guns that we had NO inspectors there? Ok, whatever...
This isn't Appeasement?
Originally posted by BHibbs
Here's the facts without taking everything out of context like you're doing now without know the Entire storey.
Here's the facts without taking everything out of context like you're doing now without know the Entire storey.
Please explain to me how I am taking anything out of “context” since I provided actual quotes from a Congressional report in Oct. 1999.
Please tell me you give more creditability to a Congressional report then you do to the left leaning liberal news organization of CNN.
Originally posted by BHibbs
Notice the "threat of Military airstrikes" under the Clinton administration seems to contradict him being week. Anyway...
Notice the "threat of Military airstrikes" under the Clinton administration seems to contradict him being week. Anyway...
Originally posted by BHibbs A far cry from NK being forced into a Nuke http://history.searchbeat.com/north-...ns-program.htm
Anyway we are in the process of cleaning up the “Clinton appeasement” approach from 1994 when he allowed them to keep nukes and also helped contribute to how much more nukes they could make…
Clinton was a swell guy and cared so deeply about the children…
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So, you support invading Iraq because they had WMDs, that they refused to remove per a UN resolution. You support invading Iran because they harbor terrorists and have nuclear capabilities. But North Korea violated a UN resolution by removing cameras, spit on US appeasement offered by Clinton, terrorizes it's own citizens and has nuclear weapons (something Iran does not have at the moment) but you think we can solve N. Korea diplomatically?
I think invading Iran at this time would be bad because it would look like a religious effort. With the events in N. Korea, dealing with them first would disavow any racial or religious issues. I've said it before, if we are going after the bad guys, then go after all of them.
I think invading Iran at this time would be bad because it would look like a religious effort. With the events in N. Korea, dealing with them first would disavow any racial or religious issues. I've said it before, if we are going after the bad guys, then go after all of them.