Right on the money there. Key words “wants us to believe”. Rather then the media just reporting the truth which was President Bush inherited The Clinton Recession (Thanks Bill)…

President Clinton proved what happens every time TAX HIKES are practiced. Every time tax hikes are practiced it slows the economy, takes money out of the tax payers pocket and REDUCES federal, state and local revenue.

All those states that are having financial problems now is ONLY because they OVER spent and raised their budgets far MORE then any revenue they were taking in and did NOT base it on what the ACTUAL growth of their state economy was…

 

a. Communism
b. Socialism
c. Jail
d. Slavery

Pick one.

Our ancestors (some of them) fought to give us liberty, and that is a two way street. Some others came here because the liberty fought for by the aforementioned was already established here. Let's not give it up for the sake of a guaranteed job.

Just my 2 cents worth.

TS

 

Sorry, didn't mean it that way, and it was more fun to say than true. I should not have stooped that low.

That said, I do sincerely appreciate that some have suffered. I have a friend here who worked all his life, had managed his own machine shop, managed a factory, etc, etc, etc, and a couple of years ago found himself without a job. It can be tough. He was out of work for several months, and is currently underemployed. But, he will make it, and so will you.

Again sorry, and in the future I will try not to let the cheap shots in.

TS:o

 

Where did the idea of Chicken Fried Steak come from?

Actually, I just live here...grew up on the Left Coast (which I like better, despite the politics) Go Arnold!

TS

 

Hey guys, just got back to a computer. I didn't read all the posts, but I read enough to see the negativity here. I posted this because it all has to start somewhere...the return of our solid economy we had throughout the late nineties (that clinton ruined). I know the jobs have not come back and most are going over seas. I, nor anyone else here knows the future of our country. But getting out of a recession has to start with first the growth which hopefully will bring back the jobs. Let's give it a chance. And no one here can deny that what the original link I posted is great news for our country.

runnert

 

TexasSteve:

Thank you for saying that...also Steve I am extra sensitive these days since I know how bad unemployment is in the IT field...If I over reacted to your comments I am sorry...I know too many IT people that are very sharp and can't even get interviews...many have lost their homes,cars and self respect and often divorce follows. Except for that one"area"of your post your pretty much on target (my opinion). Many years ago I was in Aerospace...the bottom dropped out of the military defense contract arena...massive layoffs followed...I decided to come back to Georgia....went to the employment office and was told "what in the x!2$* did you do up north"...."we dont understand a thing you have on this resume, what do you mean you worked on spacecraft" then the lady said "son, we dont have any spacecraft in Georgia"...well I learned my lesson....I lied on my applications,
lied about the money I made...I made myself much less than I am...I did manual labor for a long time just to have food...so I
did what I could to survive...Now I am just too tired of all this stuff....thanks for writing me back Steve.

 

Don’t know, just got hungry…


I too grew up on the left coast as the Right person…

 

Well I am outta networking for good. I switched to electronics. My first shot at getting a job will be coming up in about 4 months. I hope yall are right, because I just don't see it. We have been kicking for about the last 8 years and this has been our worst year in a long time at our machine shop. TexasSteve I'd like you to tell that to my friend who just got laid off after twenty eight years of working and might lose his house. The quit whinning part. Everyone wants things cheapier. They wanna drive a 14,000 dollar fiberglass box made in Tawain or where ever they make them. Personally as long as I live I will drive American car. That way I know that at least I tried to help an "American keep there job." I was in a toyota dealership a few weeks ago and they had a car on the dealership that said 98% japanese made. It was a celica with a body kit and as for the people that say a Japanese car will last longer than an American. I am so sick of that I could scream. You can't tell me someone in America can't build a great motor. I just don't see how anyone could take there hard earned money and give it up on something like that. Look at walmart using immigrants to clean stores. We are getting so cheap that we would rather save a buck than give an American a chance at decent pay. I hope Bush knows what he is doing, because I could sure use a good job.

 

IA, like I said, I know people like your friend. I apologized to GA Moon for overstating my case (and telling a guy when he is hurting to quit whinning is not right, even if the solution is to just get up and keep trying, what else can you say? go ahead and whine? someone should have guaranteed you a job? The world should stop?)

There are guys running stores who are out of jobs because bigger, more efficient stores have attracted the customers. There were blacksmiths put out of business by the attractiveness of automobiles, and train conductors who lost their jobs because airplanes were more attractive than trains. Things change. It isn't easy, fun or pretty, but that is not going to stop. I have felt the pain, not as bad as some but worse than others. But the message is to those who are hurting, including yourself and your friend, is still go out there and try to find some way to make some bucks.

I am afraid that my post is not everything I would like it to be. I meant no offense, but suffering is something we do to appreciate the good things. We don't seek it out, but it will find us. We have to try our best to make the best of it. And, we will!

TS

 

Georgia_Moon - very stand up thing to do

Okay, I read the thread up to here and then stopped.

But from what I see the problem is short term goals. Cut a bunch of employees, scew a few figures and post that your quarterly profits are up. High officials that make those decisions with a ton of stocks see the assets soar through the roof.

I remember reading something about how the above tactics are being used by the babyboomers who realize with the young talent coming in they don't stand a chance and are trying to make cash in on the last chance to get big money.

Disclaimer - I'm not implying all companies do that, but I've seen quite a few do it.

Anyway it's getting to be my bed time, so I'll do some catch up reading after I get some sleep.

 

As with most recessions the one main lesson is either not learned or forgotten by most people, which is control your spending and save what you are not spending. Let's think about this, if you and your spouse work in different industries then the odds are only one will lose their job to a lay off at a time. If you live within the bounds of one paycheck until you have enough of a nest egg to support you for at least one year then your safety net suddenly gets bigger. Most people can find at least some kind of work in a year. It might not be what you want/like/or were trained to do but at least it will keep you from starving.

Yes the jobs are going to foriegn countries. Who really wants a job? I don't. I want to own the company. You don't get wealthy having a job. You get wealthy by being paid for your work/risk. It is often said that the highest paid career is sales. A career which has an unusually high number of commissioned workers. If a company sends jobs out of this country they are doing it to make themselves more efficient (more money for the stockholders, normally the top people in corporations have alot of stock in the company). Yes downturns happen, however if you invest wisely then it lowers your overall risk. For example, gold has done well during this downturn, as have most mortgage companies/banks. Ford stock on paper lost alot of value, however they never stopped paying dividends. They did cut them by 25%, but they still paid them.

For those of you who did lose your jobs I feel bad, however if you keep imporving your skills, even if it is not in your previous industry, you will float. Additude has alot to do with success.

Just for the record neither me nor my wife were laid off during this recession...we both voluntarily found new jobs. She actually found 5 or 6 if I remember correctly.

 

I agree with the babyboomer theory. Their desire to retire at age 50, drive a Benz, play golf and live to be 110.

 

Wow, lot of stuff said and I finally got a chance to read to it all. Some of my comments and some random thoughts:
Steve - I know you apologized for this as it is mean, but IMO it holds some truth (except still let them whine, they've earned the right). And just to clarify, that is not something that can be said to anyone. But there are some people out there who lost their job and refuse to take any job that is 'below them'. If you can get away with that fine, but a lot of people have responsibilities like families to take care of. And IMO passing up less paying job because you believe you’re 'above it' and as a result hurts your loved ones, well that’s just wrong. When you have 0 income and responsibilities, beggars can't be choosers and every little bit helps.

I fully understand that going from a hefty salary, say 60k+ down to $20k may not cut it for all bills. But it's a start and may hold you over from loosing everything until the market picks up again.

Maybe the whole thing I just said above has nothing to do with your comment either ???

Some people treat pleasures as necessities

Back to the outsourcing topic. Again, here is a scenario where you get what you pay for applies. In the PC world cooperates are looking at bottom line figures, lines of code for the money. I'm not sure where quality ranks, but it's obviously not high considering how much outsourcing takes place.

Lets consider outsourcing coding to India for example. I'm sure a few people have seen documentaries on how serious they take school over there, some killing themselves for getting a 'b', etc. In general the info, documentaries and going to school with foreign exchange students, they American students to shame when it comes to taking school seriously.

Now on the flipside, the code they produce, well any programmer that’s had to fix their code probably wonders the same thing as I do, what the hell was all their schooling for???

Again this is not everyone programmer in India, but a majority of what I've seen and have heard from co-workers.


Actually aren't a lot of foreign (Japanese) cars have plants and are made in the US? My lightning was made in Canada; other Fords are made in Mexico. I believe though all VW's and BMW's are made over seas and shipped here, which is part of the reason I'm trying to can the GTI.

 

i am going to throw my two cents in here as this hits close to home (outsourcing technology jobs to india and other locations)


i have had to deal with some of these employees from india on the consumer level (hp support, juno support and others). there is a language barrier and i believe that in many cases that alone can cause frustration, and lowers the support that a customer should expect to receive.

my father had a support person that he could not understand at all, he had to ask to speak to someone else because 'i dont understand what you are trying to say to me'.

the company i work for has done the same thing on a very small level, and it pains me greatly to see this happen. we have also had customer complaints regarding language barriers, as well as some internal troubles with just trying to run a business with the time zone difference and same communication barriers.

what will happen if this trend continues, and students can see the future job market, and will be advised to avoid this type of schooling? what will happen when we are no longer producing individuals with this skill set. we will have to rely on foreign, third world, unstable countries to provide us with this type of knowledge. this trickle down affect would not occur until many years in the future if left unchecked.

these corporations that are doing this are paying salaries to employess who will not be dumping the money back into the american economy. these people wont be buying a home here, american cars, or supporting american small business.

this is a cheap, quick shot to show boosted profit margins at the expense of the american government and its working citizens.

 

I agree that shipping jobs to forgien companies does cost American's jobs but.....In my experience in foriegn countries many of their population love our products, or at least the labels. They "American" products produced for them are most likely made in a foriegn country, however the manufacturers are still American companies and the money comes right back here. Look at Ford europe or any of the Japanese car manufacturers. Yes we could make the products here then ship them to the country where they will be sold, but if the American companies hire foriegn employees to make the products/provide support or otherwise work for the company then they will be better able to afford to purchase American goods, resulting in more profit for the American companies/stockholders/taxman. As I said in my eairler post the money is in the ownership of the companies not the working for them.

I was working in Turkey and was talking to a clerk at a Baskin-n-Robins. She was telling me she made $60 a month and was glad to make that much. She worked 6 days a week about 12-15 hours a day. To give you an idea of what the cost of living was at the time. I was living in the very wealthy area of town and paid $600 for the penthouse apartment including water and heat. The place had an outstanding view of the mountains on one side and the bay on the other. A comparable apartment here would easily run about $4000-5000 not incuding heat and water.