There are plenty of valid points made in the last few points.
Yet it deeply saddens me to see that some (not all) members believe that Canada has not done its part to secure world peace. Post WWII deaths were very small indeed, but that's because :

1.) The conflicts we mediated were small civil wars (Haiti, Somalia) etc, where Canada/US was not the enemy, but were the jail wardens (metaphorically speaking)
2.) We didn't go to Vietnam because that was an exclusively American conflict with dire political consequences
3.) On average, not many American troops have died in recent (this century conflicts) OTHER THAN Vietnam and Korea, which were NONE OF CANADA'S BUSINESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.


There were very little post WWII deaths, but there were a hell of alot of WWII deaths. Who do you think was there fighting alongside you guys at Normandy? Juno beach was stormed by Canadians. The Netherlands were almost singlehandedly liberated by Canadians (while Hitler was STILL in power). Canadians are not recognized as well as they should, simply because they lacked roles in major battles (Midway, Battle of Britain), but rest assured, Canada made sacrifices in WWII.

Canada's forces have never been huge. Canada has never been able to send hundreds of thousands of men overseas because we are a country with a relatively small population (there are more people in Cali than in all of Canada), and the population was even smaller back in the days of WWII.

The Canadian deaths in WWII are in the many tens of thousands. They almost approach the 100,000 mark. YES we had a conscription, and yes this was because we felt it was part of our duty as a Western civilized country to liberate the world from the shackles of savagery (Hitler).

As for the innocent human shields, THEY ARE NOT THERE TO PROTECT SADDAM because they are not with Saddam protecting Saddam. They are there protecting innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Saddam more than you or I do.

As for the comment that "we have to go and do the work that the Iraqi people are too scare to do", well that is not exactly a valid statement. Saddam's sons take pleasure in torturing people. Saddam has public executions. Thousands of people go missing there every year. Saddam has seven billion dollar palaces while his people go starving.

It is one thing to be able to go against Saddam with a B2 and laser guided missles along with the world's greatest navy, air force, and military, and it is a completely other thing to go against Saddam when you are a peasant farmer.


The world owes America a huge debt for saving Western life as we know it. America has played the biggest military role on the world stage in the last 100 years. If it weren't for America, we'd all be speaking German more than likely. However, Americans should understand that Canadians have been there alongside them the whole way. In fact, the only way we are going to secure peace for the rest of time is if we work together, not against each other...

 

TorontoF150, please stop making intelligent, valid, sane posts here.
You disrupt the entire spirit, dare I say, essence of the thread.

 

Raoul, I will try for next time lol.... Its good to see someone who finds my posts interesting rather than as paperweights!

I just like to see credit given where credit is due.


As an example for the rest of the world, we at F150online.com should embrace our fellow F150 owners as brothers and go out for a few Brewski's.



I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, I just felt the need to standup for Canada and to demonstrate that it is not a pushover nation.

I admit handily though that without the United States of America policing the world, it would be a much more dangerous place to live. We owe a great deal to our American neighbours, but in no way is Canada a two-day old calf. I firmly believe that we should resolve our differences on f150online before we plunge ourselves into conflict and move this board away from its intended goal.

Cheers to all!

 

I wanted to say I appreciate Canada's help as well. Your Nation has been there when called upon without hesitation. I was reading an excellent series of articles in SOF about your military exploits in Afghanistan. You have some highly motivated hard chargers who inspite of your Governments condemnations, did some outstanding work at taking out the enemy at extreme distance!!

John

 

As this USA vs Canada thread has become more and more of "I did this...You did that"

All I want to add is, all Iam looking for, Is Canada to do a better job of "guarding" the US/Canadian border. I read in the NY Times as quoting a Canadian offical as saying there is no need to guard the border because there is no threat to their country coming from America. While that is probably true, it seems that the terrorist that WE are fightning, have found an open door policy in crossing the border after they have "smuggled" their way into Canada

** I used capitol letters in the word we, to denote that everybody in the free world are fighting terrorism**

 

What the Canadian official said makes sense to me.
Neither the United States or Canada has any kind of policy for keeping people in that I know of.

I have left the US by way of Canada and Mexico. The United States could care less. There wasn't any American official at the border saying,
"Where do you think you're going?

As soon as I stepped into the other Country, I had to go through all kinds of crap.
(and getting back is another story.)

Canada would best spend it's security dollars at Airports and Seaports and patrolling it's coastline rather than on the US border. I think that is what was meant.

 

First for the record I am not here bashing Canada.

But let me address this comment one more time since it has been stated again in a thread:

"As for the innocent human shields, THEY ARE NOT THERE TO PROTECT SADDAM because they are not with Saddam protecting Saddam. They are there protecting innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Saddam more than you or I do."

As I said before "that is the stupidest statement I have ever read" it makes absolutely no sense to anyone with common sense or any logic to their thought process.



Anyone who believes that statment makes any sense or has logic to it is saying:

There must be human shields because Americans will kill innocent people on purpose. Americans plan on killing as many innocent people as possible.

That is just what the statement of (human shields are needed to protect innocent people) It is complete bullsh*t. If America needs to take out a nucular stock pile and SADDAM decides to put innocent people there then OH WELL thats life. If these moron human shields decide to stand there by the stock pile as well in order to prevent it from being bombed then OH WELL they die too, thats life.

It is better to sacrafice say a few hundred human shields in order to protect millions of other life around the world should SADDAM use his nucular stock pile if he has it.

I will say this any body who dies durning war that is a human shield had better not have an American flag drapped across their casket because they will not deserve one since they are a TRADER.

And to anyone that don't have all their brain cells intact and still continue to believe that human shields are to protect innocent people FU*K YOU because MY country does NOT kill innocent people for the fun of it and tries the best they can to prevent innocent people from being hurt.

Like I said people who believe human shields are for protecting the innocent are SAYING that America kills innocent people for fun and enjoyment, you are truly sick basta*ds for thinking that.

I wish I could be back in the Military again and go to Iraq I think one of the first people I would shoot in the @SS would be one of them moron human shields. Once that happen you would see them run like little co*k-a-roaches scared sh*tless crying to their mama's back in France and Germany or what ever wuss country they came from. (I did not say kill, I said shoot in the @ss)

 

I agree that Canada must do its share to guard the border. We have already put large amounts of money into scanning devices, detection devices, x-rays, personnel, etc.. in order to avert another leak of terrorism to the United States from Canada.

You'd be surprised how many people wear the Canadian and American flags together on their homes, businesses, cars, etc... and "United We Stand" is a very prevalent phrase around here.

As soon as Sept. 11 happened, Canada immediately began toughening up the borders. Before, it used to take 30 mins to cross from one side to the other (e.g. to go to Buffalo to go shopping or to N.Y.C.) but now it can take hours as officials painstakingly go through every bag, and do background checks.

Obviously the borders in the midwest are not guarded intensely because its not economical for either side to guard a border where only a few people pass in and out. Yet, the border where Southern Ontario meets the Northeastern United States is a heavily patrolled one (as well as the Victoria B.C. and Washington/Seattle border).

Thanks guys for seeing that Canada really does its part. I remember last year there was a thread about this stuff and everyone was on fire about it. Now, we are having a mature, civil, and understandable dialogue about it.

Cheers once again!

 

Hey Raoul ,

Has Canada sent you an honorary citizenship card yet?

Your mediation here ,and other threads, has seemed to help bring a more civilized tone. It has also helped our brothers up north (and here) to put things in perspective.

So I guess you might not have to kick your own a$$.

 

I plan on buying property in Canada for my retirement and spending my summers there and winters in the South.
I have been looking into the advantages of dual citizenship.
One of which is I won't have to leave every six months unless I want to. Still haven't come to a decision. I have plenty of time. I've got to consider my tax situation, etc...

I'm just concerned because I served three years active Army, another six Active Reserve and you guys are gonna convince these Canadians to become a bunch of Hawks and when I get up there, I'll get drafted.

 

I am not going to get into the Canada, USA thing. However my opinion of the human shield thing is again, let us know where you are so you can be taken out with extreme prejudice, along with the cowardly Republican Guard who place military equipment alongside schools and hospitals. Either way tho my opinion is we have no business sending ground troops. Send nothing but aircraft and turn the region into a parking lot. A few well placed nukes does wonders. Real Estate relocation, no Country to Big, no Country to Small.

 

TorontoF150,

Please don't take all comments here about Canadians to heart Kentucky's state moto is United We Stand and Canada has stood by us more than any other country. We should all just thank God that we have the freedom to debate these problems as we do here.

 

TorontoF150

I understand Canada's position, and that it didn't get involved in certain conflicts, and that it doesn't have the population to support an enormous army, but you prove my point exactly. Again, you might as well say it's not your fault you didn't go to the NFL because you are from a small town and there was no college scouts scouring your highschool team. You make my exact point!

I'm not saying Canada is a two-day old calf, but I am saying that you need to respect the VAST difference between our two countries. Again, in a football analogy, you may even qualify as college football great, but very few people really have the ability to walk up to Emmitt or Sanders, put their arm around them, and say, "Hey man, I've got a few pointers for you..." They are in a league of their own because they are bada$$es....Your college football days doesn't mean you are a baby, in fact you are worthy of much praise, but you aren't a bada$$, bottom line..

And again, I've never said that Canada hasn't done its part, but you have to realize that that doesn't give Canadians full bragging rights equivalent to the USA. If you are deeply saddened because people aren't acknowledging that Canada did its part, how do you think we feel when all the people we saved (i.e. the whole world) turn their backs on us and act as if they did just as much and sacrificed just as much as we did? How easily we forget....

In my opinion, USA, Russia, and England were the only necessary countries to win WWII. The war would have been won with or without any other country, including Canada and France.

 

Kingwc, thank you for your kind words, they are very much appreciated

Although everyone has their own distinct views on this thread, we can all agree to one thing, that freedom is precious and that much has been sacrificed for it. America has done more than its part to secure the world's peace and to help other nations, but Canada has as well. Our role is much smaller, but we are definitely involved, and consider the U.S.A. our closest ally.

God Bless everyone!

 

Why on earth would these people want to be human shields?
Don't they realize that Saddam uses his own people to act as human shields?

There is no shortage of Iraqis who are forced to volunteer.

Oh well, if these lost souls feel they must die being a martyr, bon voyage and good luck. Don't forget to duck.

Habibi