Found a web site, www.performancecombos.com where they make some pretty big claims for not only Ford motors, but for the other companies as well. How big? How about 50 hp and 50 ft/lbs? And this is for a combination FIPK, JET Chip, and Gibson exhaust. Did I mention this is the BASE kit?

Now I hate to be a skeptic, but this just doesn't quite sound right. I would really like to see the dyno sheets on these mods, but from everything I have gleaned here tells me that a chip, FIPK, and cat back is worth maybe 20 hp tops.

Do any of you have any dyno proven mods, especially to the 5.4 motors, pre '99 (cuz that's what I have, hehe). I saw that the FIPK's were worth a whopping 2-5 hp on the dyno (rear wheels). I think I can get that from synthetic oil and better plug wires.

Then again, if anyone can actually show me the proof that these mods are making this much power, by all means, show me, I'll buy me a "combo" tomorrow!

Phil
98 Lariat EC SB 4WD 5.4

 

First, I would agee with you that those three mods will not produce 50 rear wheel horsepower. That being said the proper mods can and will help.

If you were to install parts that work such as an Air Force 1 intake, a Magnafow exhaust, and a Superchip, then you would have quality parts that will produce some decent numbers. Of cousre the most important numbers are the seat of the pants numbers.

Most of the folks on this forum do not have much good to say about Jet chips. The Superchip is the way to go- each chip is programmed for your specific pcm revision.

You should invest some more time with the search feature here. Look through "Neal the horsepower freaks" posts. He has been running his truck at the track and has commented on various mods. While he won't tell us everything that he has done with his truck, he has installed parts that work.

I don't want to put words into Neal's mouth, but I believe he would endorse the three mods I mentioned as well as Derale electric fans, JBA headers, and Denso plugs.

I imagine a fella by the name of Mike will comment on this. He has helped me and others here plenty.

 

In 1997 one of the Truck rags did a test on a Borla and a K&N filter. The Borla gained 12 HP and the filter 3 HP. I contacted the people for a torque figure but they had none. So I bought a Borla and a K&N. Back then the only two Cat Back exhaust systems were Borla and Gibson. Borla was SS and had a warranty which I used 3 times. So if you add a superchips with 25 hp and a Borla with say 10, forget the K&N, you have a gain of 35 HP. K&N claim they get up to 10% more power with their FIPK. Lets be conserative and say 10 HP. Header companies claim 15 HP, again lets say 10. So we now have 25+10+10+10=55HP. This is at the flywheel. So a 4.6 will go from 220 to 275 and a 5.4 will go from 260 to 315 HP. So using these power gains go out and price each componant and see what 55 HP will cost you. As these numbers are conserative then they should apply to almost any manufacturer. Now the real trick is knowing which manufacturer to use and how much to pay.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

The only problem with your analogy is that parts used in combination seldom "stack" hp numbers. What I mean to say is that a chip+fipk+exhaust, you cannont take the hp numbers of each and merely add them together. Rather, you have to have all parts in place and have them properly dyno'd to get an accurate result.

The thing that really fries me about this is that the same website shows a F150 that has their 50 hp kit...guess what....20 hp is all they added. This seems to me not only blatant, but equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.

Like I said, I want to see the numbers on a chassis dyno of these mods. I would thought more of the magazines would have done this since modding newer trucks is so popular.

Granted, 20 hp on my '98 w/ 5.4 would be nice, but then I would still be 5 hp shy of the stock '99 and later motors and have to run premium gas! But horsepower numbers don't tell the whole story. Where one of my biggest concerns is towing and getting up grades without dropping into 2nd, torque is what I need. And I need that torque at a usable rpm. A lot of places don't tell you where they get these hp and torque nubmbers, but I would just guess that they're out of the usable rpm range that I operate in.

So, anyone have some dyno testing and such that I can look at? I'm already playing with the idea of 4.10's and 285/75-16s. I'm not really interested in a chip if I have to run premium, and I already had a nightmare with the K&N!

Thanks for the thoughts...very interesting

 

If you take the Freak's truck with all he added then you will see in his ¼ mile times that they do add up. I agree that the manufacturer's claimed HP may be optimistic and that is why I lowered the numbers. An other thing to contend with on the street is wind resistance. This never is a factor on a DYNO unless the machine is programmed to factor in the number. A Dyno is used to measure the resulting gains you achive with your mods.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

The vast majority of mods claimed increases don't show as being realistic on the dyno..... period.

The appplies to most aftermarket performance products sold today. The vast majority use key phrases such as "up to" and "some have acheived" HP and torque gains. What is often claimed to make 25 HP makes 7 or 8 at times. Once in a while a product really does come close to claims, but that seems to be an exception.

Of the dynos I've seen posted on this site, the claims are being beaten down fairly quickly.

 

This is an interesting line of posts. You can see the mods I have done listed in my sig. below. I have yet to get my truck dynoed so all I have to go by is seat of the pants, which is not exactly scientific.

I am also a bit skeptical about the claimed H.P. gains on most of these bolt on mods. I do however know that my seat-o-da-pants dyno has felt a a change of some sort with each mod.
The most favorable change was with the super chip and FIPK.
The most disappointing change was with the Gibson supertruck exhaust. That was my third mod and it seemed to take away some of my low end torque and H.P. gains from my first mod.
I then did the ASP pulley mod. and it felt as though it gave me back a bit of the low end I lost to the cat back. My electric fans came next and I did "feel" some improvement in low end again.
I then changed out the Gibson for a magnaflow and again "felt" a gain in low end over the Gibson.

Now here is what I am thinking....the order in which you choose which mods and the law of diminishing returns plays a big part in how each person perceives the gain they get from each mod. The gain from one mod may actually be diminished by another in one RPM range but improved in a different RPM range. As for dollar value per H.P., I don't even want to think about how much that has cost me. But I look at it as a fun sort of clean hobby(cheaper than getting drunk every week end and no hang over) so cost per H.P. does not worry me. It's the kick I get out of working on my truck and then seeing the results.

I did all of this typing to say that I know that I can't simply add up all the claimed gains and say that I have that as my total H.P. and torque...but I do have a faster truck than stock.


Rocks

 

Rocks,

Are you keeping your current F-150 or selling/trading it in, when your Lightning comes in? Also, what made you decide to get a Lightning after doing so much to your current F-150? My goal is to keep my current 99 supercab and when it is paid off, I hope to keep it and also get a used 99 or newer Lightning.

 

I definitely agree on the HP versus Bar comment! I wouldn't have the toys I have and the fun I have working on them if I had spent all weekends at bars. I *try* to spend time at the race track with my cars...I think it's cheaper anyhow, and the only hangover I ever had working on a car was a 38 hour marathon 2 car engine/tranny swap where I dropped the starter on my head!

I had read what you mentioned about the Gibson, seems you're not alone in losing low end torque.

Because I tow 3 different cars (2 race, one show), towing is a big deal to me. I also drive this truck like a car, meaning I drive it everyday in city traffic, and take it out of town unloaded, and sometimes loaded. I think I have addressed all the suspension problems, adding a brake controller and overload springs.

My next major mod will probably be 4.10's and 16 inch wheels with D load rated tires. Yes, the motor will be a little busy, but since the majority of my driving is in town, I will be able to use the OD at 35, which should actually improve my mileage in town, as now I never get out of Drive. On the highway, it may be a bit more consumption, I'm running the numbers now.

I might go with the Superchip Flipchip. As for an FIPK, I'm still undecided. I had a K&N filter for 4 months, during which my mileage actually went down, then it gummed up my MAF sensor making my Check Engine light go on.

Anyhow, yes, good thread. The bottom line is, I think if there were bolt on 75 hp and 75 ft/lbs mods, we'd all be doing it!

 

Hey iron horse,

It's good to hear/read? from you again. I have been hit and miss on the forum lately. Working to much I guess.

I have my 97 about paid off...3 more payments....so I plan on keeping it for work, deer hunting, fishing....and maybe even hauling my L to the track in the next year or so.
I figured having 2 trucks would be OK.

The lightning is going to be my "fun" truck...LOL. Only problem is I am worried about my 97 getting jealous and causing troubles. The 97 has always had a warm place in my garage.....Hummmm...the Lightning can't be left outside. I may have to buy another house so I can keep them in seperate garages and avoid all the fighting.


Man, this could get expensive,

Rocks

 

misteramx,

You raise issues I continue to agonize over. I know exactly where you are coming from. You need a Magnacharger kit. If you look for one should be able to find a used one for 2500 to 3000. Or new for 3500.

 

Drop the starter on your head??????????LMAO. That had to sting a little.

The low end torque/H.P. issue is a big one for me also.
Your comments help to point out that the mods we each do or don't do is typically related to how we each use our trucks.
The folks that like LOUD exhaust sounds will usually swear by flomasters...for me the LOUD exhaust is not really an issue. I like the nice calm rumble that wakes up and barks when I get in it without the loss of low end torque.

Now JMC likes jumping all over sand dunes...LOL So he will have a different set of criteria than us street guys who try to avoid water puddles for fear of getting spots on our new wax job.

The super chip is one mod that I know made a huge difference....that one I would swear by.

I just thought of something else....I had a K&N drop in from about 2 months after getting my truck in 97. I heard about it here when this was a mailing list. So many of the members here warned of the oil issue that from day one I was very **** about the manner I oiled it in. Knock on wood....my present FIPK also has a oiled K&N filter and I am still trouble free.


Rocks

 

The only problem with using any forced induction is the amount of abuse the motor will take. And as far as I know the 5.4 isn't equipped with forged pistons, but rather cast aluminum. Granted, this isn't a 20 psi boosted motor, but power is heat, and heat is bad on cast pistons. Not to mention the kind of temperatures I could generate towing a rig up a major hill. Then there is the torque capacity of the stock tranny....

Yikes, this is getting spendy. Why can't Ford just bore and stroke the 5.4 to 5.8 (351) and call it the Boss 351! If Dodge can bring the Hemi name back, why not the Boss? I dream of this motor, with 325 hp and 390 ft/lbs of torque. Hey, a guy can dream can't he...

 

Rocks,

Yeah, I have been insanely obsessed lately with my recent pulley change. 11 to 12 pounds of boost is a HUGE increase in everything according to my autometer and seatometer!

You are doing what I hope to do......have a heavy supercab that your not afraid of getting "branch marks" on, and have a Lightning for street fun, yet, I hope to also have a single cab ford ranger (midget Lightning) and put either a Lightning engine/drivetrain or a 351 or 460 in it.


Wait, I just saw misteramx's last post....I would vote for what he said!

 

I bolted all of the mods in my signature on in one day (Saturday 10/19/2002). The only thing prior to these were custom duals and a k&n filter. It was estimated by Mike that this would equate to roughly 70 FWHP. after the rear-wheel conversion this would equate to roughly 42-45 RWHP. I completely believe this because my truck is doing things that it would never do and all of my friends that have ridden in it are amazed. Have yet to dyno it but I really don't know if it would be worth it since I did not dyno it pre-mods. Let me know what you would do. 3 pulls on our local dyno is $60. My guess would be 290 FWHP and around 180-190 RWHP. Do you think this is close?