Ok..So what gives!!!!
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi War Eagle & Mikey88,
War Eagle, good to see you again!
I'll need to look at some drag-down numbers from some dyno work on those GM's to really answer if they are seeing those significantly larger driveline losses compared to these Fords. I apologize, I don't have the driveline losses for the GM truck memorized like I do these Fords, so I'll need to do some digging to get you guys some confirmation on those GM driveline losses.
What I can tell you about these F-150's is that at stock power levels in a 1997 & up V-8 automatic F-150 with the 4R70W tranny, the losses are about 65 hp (with a 4.6 5-speed manual, about 33-35 hp), meaning best case, a stock 220 hp 4.6 automatic would show 155 hp at the wheels, and we've seen some at just 140 at the wheels stock. With the 4R100 automatic, the losses are about 70 hp. Keep in mind, that is at *stock* power levels. That gives you about a 29.5% loss figure for a 4.6 automatic F-150, and about 25% loss in a 5.4. The 5.4 looses roughly about the same number of horsepower to the driveline, but because the 5.4 makes more power, the same hp number loss is a lower *percentage* of that power. Again, these are at stock power levels we're talking about here in the V-8 F-150.
Given those numbers, and comparing them to what you're citing, the GM appears to be loosing more to driveline losses, though I do wonder about a 95 hp loss, and a 117 hp loss (WOW) is HUGE at that power level, but I'll need to check before I can answer that specific issue with any real accuracy for you & Mikey88.
In general, I'm not a fan of using straight percentages for driveline losses, though it sometimes works out that way. I would expect it to be more consistent in the Magnaflow exhaust testing that Truckin' has been doing, as they usually do that at the same facility each time.
Power lost to the driveline generally increases once overall power increases beyond a certain point, but it's not always a constant linear percentage all the way up and down the line, so to speak.
You and Mikey88 both make a good point about the performance differences between the GM trucks and our beloved Fords..............one point to remember is that some of these GM trucks are a bit lighter than the F-150 when you look at the actual weights, and sometimes in a similar configuration you can still get a few hundred pounds of difference easily. Every 100 lbs. is almost a truck length! Of course, we also have to deal with the fact that the 5.3 GM V-8 truck engine has more power than the 5.4 engine in the F-150 in stock trim, as well as those GM's have some more options for gearing. We've seen the very lightest & best geared stock 5.3 1500 series rip off mid-15 second passes in the 1/4 mile. We've also seen the lightest 5.4 F-150's rip off times that were within 2 tenths of a second of that, 15.5 compared to 15.7 for Raoul's F-150 truck, for those of you here who know Raoul.
That's Ok, it's easy to add lots more power to the Ford V-8's as well, what the factory gives us is just a starting point.
To answer your other question War Eagle, sure, there are always more modifications you can do to that F-150 to take it just as quick and as fast as you want to go. We can provide parts to make those F-150's capable of putting a hurt of most vehicles you will come up against, it's just a matter of how far you are willing to go, which usually translates to how badly you want how much performance, it's a function of $$$, as always.
War Eagle, good to see you again!
I'll need to look at some drag-down numbers from some dyno work on those GM's to really answer if they are seeing those significantly larger driveline losses compared to these Fords. I apologize, I don't have the driveline losses for the GM truck memorized like I do these Fords, so I'll need to do some digging to get you guys some confirmation on those GM driveline losses.
What I can tell you about these F-150's is that at stock power levels in a 1997 & up V-8 automatic F-150 with the 4R70W tranny, the losses are about 65 hp (with a 4.6 5-speed manual, about 33-35 hp), meaning best case, a stock 220 hp 4.6 automatic would show 155 hp at the wheels, and we've seen some at just 140 at the wheels stock. With the 4R100 automatic, the losses are about 70 hp. Keep in mind, that is at *stock* power levels. That gives you about a 29.5% loss figure for a 4.6 automatic F-150, and about 25% loss in a 5.4. The 5.4 looses roughly about the same number of horsepower to the driveline, but because the 5.4 makes more power, the same hp number loss is a lower *percentage* of that power. Again, these are at stock power levels we're talking about here in the V-8 F-150.
Given those numbers, and comparing them to what you're citing, the GM appears to be loosing more to driveline losses, though I do wonder about a 95 hp loss, and a 117 hp loss (WOW) is HUGE at that power level, but I'll need to check before I can answer that specific issue with any real accuracy for you & Mikey88.
In general, I'm not a fan of using straight percentages for driveline losses, though it sometimes works out that way. I would expect it to be more consistent in the Magnaflow exhaust testing that Truckin' has been doing, as they usually do that at the same facility each time.
Power lost to the driveline generally increases once overall power increases beyond a certain point, but it's not always a constant linear percentage all the way up and down the line, so to speak.
You and Mikey88 both make a good point about the performance differences between the GM trucks and our beloved Fords..............one point to remember is that some of these GM trucks are a bit lighter than the F-150 when you look at the actual weights, and sometimes in a similar configuration you can still get a few hundred pounds of difference easily. Every 100 lbs. is almost a truck length! Of course, we also have to deal with the fact that the 5.3 GM V-8 truck engine has more power than the 5.4 engine in the F-150 in stock trim, as well as those GM's have some more options for gearing. We've seen the very lightest & best geared stock 5.3 1500 series rip off mid-15 second passes in the 1/4 mile. We've also seen the lightest 5.4 F-150's rip off times that were within 2 tenths of a second of that, 15.5 compared to 15.7 for Raoul's F-150 truck, for those of you here who know Raoul.
That's Ok, it's easy to add lots more power to the Ford V-8's as well, what the factory gives us is just a starting point.
To answer your other question War Eagle, sure, there are always more modifications you can do to that F-150 to take it just as quick and as fast as you want to go. We can provide parts to make those F-150's capable of putting a hurt of most vehicles you will come up against, it's just a matter of how far you are willing to go, which usually translates to how badly you want how much performance, it's a function of $$$, as always.