Super and Flip chips seem to be very popular in these forums. However, I can not decide between the superchip and the Hypertech programmer.

The Superchip's Flipchip allows for use with low (87) and higher (91 & up) octane fuel.

But, with a FlipChip do you go back to standard settings and standard performance when "flipped" back for low octane?

With the Hypertech programer you can program for higher (91 & up)octane or lower (87) octane as well. However, with the hypertech, you still see gains of 15 hp and 28 torque at the wheel with lower octane programming. Higher octane settings provide 22 hp and 43 torque gains.

Does the flipchip provide any hp and torque gains on the low (87) octane setting?

With the Super/flip chips you must change the computer chip, but a hypertech programmer just plugs in programs then unplugs

The hypertech programmer costs on average, about $100 dollars more than the super/flip chip.

My goal is to get the most performance out of 87 octane. It appears that the hypertech does that better than the superchip/flipchip but I am not certain. Has anyone tried both for 87 octane use ? Which one did you like better and why? Thanks.

 

depending on the year of your truck it may not make a difference if it is a ford hypertech does not make programmers for the later model f150s I think 98 and up.

 

[The Superchip's Flipchip allows for use with low (87) and higher (91 & up) octane fuel.

But, with a FlipChip do you go back to standard settings and standard performance when "flipped" back for low octane?]


First, I am NOT the expert, but this is what I have experienced.

No, you do not go back to a standard factory setting when flipped to program 1(low octane). You go to a code that gives you a hp improvement for 87 octane, and all the shift improvements/throttle response you see in the performance setting. Your hp improvement will be less than when running on program 2(performance/91 octane mode), but the shift improvement, throttle response will be maintained.

When I was investigating which chip improvement product to use, Hypertech was hands down the one mentioned to stay away from. There were various reasons given, but when it came to the Superchip, nary a negative comment was found on the product and how it performs. And, I searched many areas, not just this forum. But, as fate would have it, this forum asked many of the questions I had, and Mike Troyer appeared to "know his stuff".

These are my opinions, and remember they are worth what you paid for them !

 

The 1999 F-150 4.6L/5.4L hypertech programer III will be available in about one month, according to hypertech. F150World is already listing it for sale in their store.

I still am wondering what the hp and torque gains are for the FLipChip on 87 octane? Does it provide the same, more, or less hp/torque gains than the Hypertech on 87 octane?

 

I think that many of us are attracted to the Hypertech when we begin to search for information. They advertise heavily. If we do a search on the internet, they will come up. That's the way it happened for me. I read all I could about the Hypertech and was almost convinced I had to have one. Then I started to see things like "generic program", and "only at WOT", worst of all "requires the use of a 160 degree thermostat". I kept looking and in the end I'm glad that I ended up with the Superchip.
It is important to remember, this type of "computer upgrade" is not going to make some earth shattering change. Hell, I just put a blower on my truck and although it's totally awsome, it's not made my truck an untouchable (I'm lots faster than before but there are plenty faster). The chip is a reletively inexpensive mod, if you want to get the most for your dollars, the Superchip is the one that will deliver.

Tom

 

Hi IH Good replies here.

Just keep reading/comparing...it will come to you. Its all here.

You get 2-5hp gains (maybe) with just the schip/flip and 87oct.

You have to use 91+oct. to get the noticeable gains...

Hypertech...does it noticeable increase hp with 87oct...i dont think so.

Good luck...OT

 

I tried the Hypertech in my 1997 and sent it back. It did not do a good job of changing the shift firmness in 1st gear and did nothing for the rev limiter. Helped performance a little. As far as when you programed for 87 all it did was change shift firmness. It has limited options to change on the 1997. I would check their website and see what you can actually change before ording. something that concered me with the hyperteck is if you had a problem and did not have the unit in you truck of the unit broke you could not change the program back to stock. With the chip you can just unplug while on the road. I then got the flip chip. After using them both the flip is much better, especially the shifting. I think the chip specific codes make a difference.

 

Hi Iron Horse,

You've got a lot of good responses here already, and I thought I'd drop by to give just a bit more on this.

The 87 octane program in the Superchip Flip Chip is not anything close to the stock factory program. In fact, what we do in the dual-octane Flip Chip setup is to make both programs identical except for the octane level the engine is tuned for, and that way you get all the other benefits, even though the raw power gain on the 87 octane program is going to be smaller than what you get on the premium gas program.

The power gain on the 87 octane program is going to run about 5 peak horsepower at the wheels, and some get as much as 8 HP + from it. Hypertech mentions in their ads that their 87 octane program gets almost as much power gain as their premium gas program, and considering how little their premium gas programs actually add, I'd say that's about right, for them.

With any kind of performance tuning for these F-150's, the "real" raw power gain is going to come on the premium gas program, there just isn't significant room for improvement in terms of raw power output on 87 octane gas via powertrain programming. However, our 87 octane program is certainly a noticeable improvement, the powertrain responds much quicker, it shifts better, and there is a more raw power, so the vehicle will accelerate a bit quicker and certainly be more enjoyable to drive. Our 87 octane program will do a better job than theirs, hands down, and there are plenty of people here who have used both to confirm that.

We've never seen 15 more rear wheel peak HP from Hypertech's tuning for *premium* gas in these trucks, so I have a very hard time accepting that happening now on 87 octane. You can see what other people who have used their tuning say about this, they felt virtually nothing on the Hypertech 87 octane program other than better shifting.

One of the problems with Hypertech's tuning is that it's "generic," meaning that there is only 1 program for all 1998 4.6 F-150's, for example. With the Superchip, you get programs that were made *specifically* for your individual vehicle's exact software revision in it's powertrain computer, and that makes a difference in the potential improvements. Each model year there are hundreds of different factory software revisions, and we make a different performance program for each and every one of them, as is needed to properly and fully optimize the powertrain programming of each individual vehicle.

Also, with Hypertech you only see more power during open-loop operation, basically only at extremely heavy throttle. The rest of the time there is no power gain, as the engine tuning has not been changed there, it's only changed during open loop. They have even told people that it is *illegal* to change the engine tuning on part-throttle like Superchips does, which is nuts, the Superchip is 50-state emissions *certified*, and adds more horsepower and torque *all* the time, at any throttle position, at any rpm.

If you'd like to go over this in more detail, please feel free to give us a call, we'll be happy to go over all the details, so you can give it some thought before making your decision.

It might interest you to know that the gentleman who runs the store over on World is using the Superchip in his vehicles. He's a heck of a guy by the way, he and his wife are friends of ours, and people we think very highly of, we've been fortunate to know them for a few years now. We've done custom tuning for some of their customers vehicles from time to time, as well as supplying the Superchip for his personal vehicles.

Best of luck whatever you decide,

 

Thanks for everyone's comments. I do not wish to learn through "trial and error" since I am on a limited budget. Of course my goal is to get the most hp/torque gains with the least amount of increase in my fuel bill and or initial cost for mods.

However, just as Mike T. makes a very good argument for his product, "Jim" of Hypertech Tech Support made a very good argument for his product.

I only stated what Jim stated in his email to me. According to Jim of Hypertech, "We sell more in one year than all other mfg's combined." He also stated, "...our products come with a lifetime warranty." He went further to state, "...the 87 octane setting we gained 15 hp and 28 tq....the 93 octane setting we gained 22 hp and 43 tq all at the wheels."

Concerning my question about making program changes and using the Programmer for multiple trucks, Jim stated, "You can only program one vehicle per programmer. Once you program a vehicle it keeps the stock information in it so you can hook back up to the same truck and go back to stock or make changes. If you do go back to stock you can then program another vehicle of the same type."

Yet, in my opinion, it appears that the lack of real hp/tq gains (at least 30 hp/tq) by either product does not justify the added cost of fuel, a supercharger would, but is far too costly (unless they become available under $1,000). Although, I am in my early 30's, I long for the days when you could just bolt on an edlebrock intake, Holley four barrel carb, change the cam, open up the exhaust, disconnect the majority if not all of the computer systems and white smoke the tires-all for under $1,000.

Finally, to Mike T. (Super/FlipChip Sales Rep.) thanks for your detailed comments, however I have a recommendation. Develop a chip that creates "real" hp/tq gains, such as, at least increasing stock hp/tq. gains by 20% (40 hp/tq/) or more and sell it for less than $500. Thanks.

 

http://www.electricsupercharger.com
Here is a link to a supercharger for under $1000.
You will see, you get what you pay for.
You..., we started driving in the late '80s, right? There were computer controlled vehicles then. In my area there was emissions inspections. We had to have the cats and all the smog stuff. We couldn't just bolt on 50, 60, 70hp. Thoes days were before we had drivers licences.
Superchips was around. I think they were starting to develope what we have today.
When you look at the cost of the trucks we drive, the few hundred we spend for a chip seems well worth it. I think it does anyhow. You will spend at least as much for a cat back exhaust and get about half the gain. The same goes for the FIPK.
I think what I am trying to say is you get what you pay for. No more, no less. I know about tight budget. I will be a while paying off my big purchase. I decided what I wanted, saw there really wasn't an alternative, and I will make the budget work.
If you can find something that works better than a Superchip and costs less, please TELL US about it!

Good luck!
Tom

 

Tom,

Thanks for your comments. I began driving in the mid-80's. My first car was a used 1979 Firebird TransAm promoted as the "Last of the Muscle Cars (I started working to help my family at age 11, when my father was injured/paralized on the job (oilfield), I also saved for three years to buy the firebird at age 151/2). It came stock with a 403 Buick engine and a crappy quadjet carb. It had computer controlled items as well. But, I still deconnected the smog pump, gutted the catalytic converter and put a holley four barrel on it.

Had a 82 Firebird in the early 90's. In 91', I snapped the crankshaft in the little v6. So, I went and bought a 1969 Chevy longbed pick-up for $650.00. The owner had put a late 80's model Camero 350 in it with a holley double pumper carb on it (he said he use to race rich boys with new trucks for money), we think he also changed the cam. That 69' chevy produced so much power, I could "white smoke" the tires at will. No truck and most cars in my little area of the world could outrun it. However, we found out later that the previous owner had also put a warped intake manifold on it and the leaks acted like a supercharger with the engine sucking in larger quantities of air, yet it ran smooth. Remember, this engine was setup for computer controlled TPI.

I pulled the engine and trans. out of it, sold the truck for $400. and put the engine and trans in the computer controlled 82' Firebird. I put an aftermarket Edelbrock intake on the former TPI 350 with a Holley 650 or 700 cfm carb. I disconnected (cut) all computer connections. Infact, I put a manual choke control in the dash. I disconnected smog pump, gutted the catalytic converter, put large, real dual exhaust on it from a salvaged Trans Am, and put the larger sway bars from a salvaged Trans Am on it.
It produced so much hp and tq., several mechanics advised me not to hook up the "kickdown cable" because, it might shear the flywheel off and send it up through the chasis into the interior of the car! Without the kickdown cable even being hooked up, I could outrun late model Corvettes and all trucks in my area.

I think, if I was to take my factory 4.6l out of my 99 f-150, I could put a whole engine from a salvage yard in it(351?), outrun most other trucks and buy the engine (500) and the mods (500) to do it for 1,000 or less. If the trans. will not work without the computer, I would have to change that as well so add a possible additional $400 if needed.

I am currently trying to do research to see, if I could just take the intake manifold, fuel injector set up and disconnect all related computers and go buy a aftermarket carb. intake and holley or edelbrock intake. With the right set-up, I could even bolt on an older supercharger- cheap.

Although, I work in the "City" where emmissions testing was done when it was required for an inspection sticker (our state does not require inspection stickers anymore), I always got my inspection sticker at the most hillbilly looking rural inspection station, therefore, no emissions testing.

After reviewing the forums on this site and the other site, I have come to several conclusions:
1. I will not settle for overpriced items that produce no real hp/tq. gains.

2. You could easily spend 1,000 and see no real hp/tq. gains, infact you may lose some or you could spend the price (4,500)of a 2001 Ford Factory Lighnting Crate Engine with supercharger already installed, and buy a supercharger alone, and see some real results.

3. You could demand more performance gains from vendors.

4. Become resourceful and think "outside the marketing box"

Thanks.

 

Hi Iron Horse,

Thanks for your response.

You're not the first person to want us to make more power, that is darn near as old as time itself. If *anyone* could somehow magically come up with a chip that added 20% more power in an F-150 (which would be 52 horsepower in a 5.4 motor, and will never happen), it would have been done. That is not even remotely close to possible via powertrain programming alone, at *any* price. Superchips isn't leaving anything laying on the table, and nobody is making larger power gains, as anyone with engine tuning knowledge and those who have actually tried both products on the same vehicle knows. These boards have posts from numerous people who have actually used both the Superchip and the Hypertech on the same vehicle, and among those who have actually used both products on the same vehicle to make a direct comparison, virtually nobody has preferred the Hypertech, those are facts that can easily be seen in the posts here from the very people buying them.

We understand that you are trying to determine which product to use, and don't want to make a mistake. Perfectly reasonable, and we couldn't agree more, by all means, do your homework.

The basic limitation of how much power can be aded via powertrain programming to these vehicles is the quality & octane level of fuel that can be tuned for, and that is pump premium, which is the highest octane that literally anyone can get at their local gas stations. There is no way to gain more than about 10%-12% more power via powertrain programming on a stock to lightly modified F-150. It doesn't matter what somebody *wants*, it's a simple matter pf physics. Heck, I want my Lightning to make 600 HP instead of it's current 500 HP, but it's not going to happen with a different powertrain program, that is going to take more mechanical modifications.

The reality is, to be able to gain 10% more power in these vehicles for the extremely low cost of the Superchip makes it the single best bang-for-the-buck modification available for these vehicles, as nothing else will improve performance as much for it's cost or less. The difference in fuel costs to use the Superchip on premium gas versus running on the factory program on 87 octane gas is no more than $100 per 10,000 miles driven, a tiny amount. The reality is, and this too can be seen all over these boards, is that people are spending not more than about $2-$3 a week to use the Superchip on premium, unless they are doing all city driving in traffic, or using cheap premium gas, etc. that skews the numbers. All of these facts and much more are easily seen right here on these boards, posted by the very people who have spent their hard-earned money on these products. Spending more time reading them might help you more, as it's the only source of unbiased information.

I think the most relevant reality is that we don't care what the name on the box is, all we care about are the actual results. If Hypertech had a better product, we'd be selling them instead, plain and simple, and that, I think, says it all.

Perhaps you have incorrectly assumed that we are the manufacturer, we're not, though we do of course work very closely with them and particpate in much of the work that goes into making the programs in these vehicles. The point is, we're not locked into only being able to sell the Superchip, or only talking about only the Superchip in positive terms. What we do here is take the time & do the research to find out what various companies are actually capable of, go and see their engineering staff (those that actually have engineers on staff) in person, and test to see just which parts really are doing the best job and why. That is something you'll be hard pressed to find anyone else doing. We do that for 1 reason, so that we *know* who's doing the best job, we don't take any manufacturer's claims at face value, and that is the what our customers have come to count on us for and what we have established a long & solid reputation for, the straight scoop.

We know this can be a confusing process, and we hope this works out for you.

We wish you the best of luck whatever you decide!

 

Mike,

Thanks for your comments as well. I had hoped that my last post would bring "out in the open", in one post, what I consider to be critical information. You did just that.

From my perspective, you stated two very important pieces of information including:

1. You stated something to the effect that, with quality premium gas, chip users spend on average, about $100.00 more per 10,000 miles, unless they are doing all City type driving and or using low quality gas.

2. You stated something to the effect that, it is only possible from an engineering and phyisic theoritical standpoint, to gain 10% to 12% more power via powertrain PROGRAMING.

If this is true, and if a person is satisfied with, or will settle for only a 10% to 12% gain and if it is true that on average, you only spend $100 more per 10,000 miles, that sounds okay for a couple hundred dollars.

But, what can you do with a 10% increase in hp to our v8s? Outrun a Chevy v6? no. Is a 10% gain enough to make us "feel" more confident about passing a slow vehicle on a two lane? no. Is it a real increase in power? No, I don't think so. So what is it good for?

My concern is based on my opinion that, we are offered mods. that provide no real hp increase because they are based on the premise that there is only so much you can do, since the auto computer controlls all (except superchargers and nos). Many of us have come to accept that ...I guess.

It appears right now, you can pay a reasonable amount of cash for an unreasonable hp gain or pay the price of an older used truck that will beat a new one, to pay for a supercharger or pay a reasonable amount for Nos and hope that you do not blow your engine or emplty the nos Tank. Where are the mods. that are in the mid range (500-1000) that produce real hp gains?

What about a real off-road (to meet legal emissions?) chip with off the charts hp gain? Or more importantly, what about a chip that effectively shut down the engine portion of the computer program yet continues to operate the electronic ignition, trans. and other portions thereby allowing an aftermarket carb., carb. intake manifold or an older generation yet functional supercharger to be bolted on for real horse power gains at a substantial reduced price?

If you where to think outside the marketing box, what if you disconnected the computer system from the engine? What if you did not have to depend on the computer to deternine air and fuel ratios? What mods could you do then? Yes the computer is more effecient. But, it appears to be effeciently slow.

The computerized and supercharged Lighnting is the fastest "Production" pick-up in the world, not the fastest pick-up in the world.

I am not an expert. When the experts told me that I could not disconnect the computer and put a carb on a computer controlled engine and have it function properly, I could have accepted that...I guess. However, I did not. I disconnected the computer controlls, put an edelbrock intake manifold on it and a Holley four barrel on it. It drank a lot of 87 octane and I did not care, because it had real raw power increases and I did not have to read a dyno sheet to know it, I knew it by the seat of my pants and the tire burning whitesmoke.

I must also disagree with your statement about, if it was possible to make it faster it would have already been done. Many people told the Wright Brothers (invented first real flying plane ) that, people have been trying to fly for thousands of years, don't you think if it could have been done, it would have by now? The Wright' s could have accepted that...I guess.

 

Quoting Ironhorse:::::::

However, we found out later that the previous owner had also put a warped intake manifold on it and the leaks acted like a supercharger with the engine sucking in larger quantities of air, yet it ran smooth.
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You obviously don't know how a supercharger works.

 

Rebel Yell,

I do not understand what you mean when you say that I do not understand how superchargers work. Even if I didn't, what is your point?

Regardless, if a supercharger is a conventional roots, screw(roots) or centrifugal type superchargers, a supercharger forces larger quantities of air into the engine. More air more fuel and more hp.

The warped carb. intake manifold that the previous owner had put on the former computer controlled TPI 350 that I discussed, acted like a supercharger in the sense that, the leaks due to the warping, created additional openings to the engine. Because an engine is one large pump and sucks in air and fuel anyway, the leaks caused more air to be sucked into the engine. A supercharger does the same thing. It forces more air into the engine, than can normally be sucked into the engine.

I contend that either you did not fully understand my post or you think you must attempt to discredit my real world experiences to justify your cost of owning or consideration to own, a supercharger and or computer chip.

If I had enough disposable income, I would set-up a 1999 or newer (all four doors open) supercab flareside pick-up like a Lighnting except, I would put a bigger engine than the 5.4, have upgraded internal parts like a lightning 5.4, supercharge it, nos it, and if a chip and higher octane helped that set-up, use it as well. If I had that kind of money, I would use anything to increase hp/tq.

The point of my latter posts in this thread, is that, if you assume that the computer must remain, there appears to currently be only limited costly options that produce real increases in speed? In my opinion, the computer chips/programmers currently offered, by themselves, at any price, do not produce real, increases in speed. If that is their intent and you are happy with that, that is your business. But, I know that for the price of some "cat-back" exhausts you can buy an aftermarket carb. and carb. intake that will produce a real "seat of the pants" increase in performance. I know because I have done it to a former computer controlled engine. Therefore, I am trying determine if other than the common road of late model truck performance upgrades, is possible, reliable and feasible.

I thought these forums were suppose to be about the free exchanging of ideals and thoughts so as to promote ever increasing levels of performance at a reduced price to the consumer?