I know this is a little off of the "CHIP" subject but, as far as I can tell, it all ties together for total performance ... or the lack thereof.

I talked with an engineer at Granatelli, who makes one of the best aftermarket MAS on the market, and he said, "Be sure to get our newest model that includes the "Cold Air Sensor" because it will give you a few extra horses."

Now, if you put on a new FIPK K&N Air Filter and a new "Chip", without installing a new Mass Airflow Sensor, isn't that kind of like buying a race horse and then hitching it to a plow?

The new MasS Airflow Sensor will tell your "Chip" that up to 45% more air is available for the engine to breath. But, without it, your $350 Chip and your $230 Airfilter aren't doing you much good. Am I reading this right?

Further, even if you do install the new Mass Airflow Sensor, along with the Air Filter, you won't see the total possible results for as much as 200 miles of driving unless you disconnect your battery for 15 minutes to reset the computer to learn all the new settings in five minutes? Is this pretty much the situation?

So, if you install only a Chip and the Air Filter, you have cheated yourself considerably by not installing the Mass Airflow Sensor as well?

$64 Question: How much difference will a new Mass Airflow Sensor make over the OEM version?

Thanks in advance Mike.

 

Please read my reply in the engine section.

 

To which thread? There's 100's of threads in the engine section. If you want to help the guy out. Tell him what thread to look for. Not trying to bust your beans, but come on now.

 

Didn't know he posted in the engine forum too. Sorry. Open mouth insert foot.

 

Hi Bill,

Aftermarket MAF's (mass airflow meters) are great parts, however, they have their time & place, and it really isn't on a stock or lightly modified engine, for the most part. I mean that strictly from the standpoint of it being worth their cost including the custom program that is required for the ECU (powertrain computer) to fix the lean-out of the air/fuel ratio that installing any aftermarket MAF will cause in these FoMoCo vehicles (aftermarket MAF's usually lean out the A/F by 1.8-2.0), there just isn't enough power gain to warrant such an expense, in my humble opinion. Maybe a handful of horsepower at 5000 rpm, that's about all you'll get from a larger MAF on a stock or lightly modified F-150.

Now if you're chasing every last horsepower, then sure, a larger MAF & TB should be part of that equation, or if you have major mods to the motor; just realize that in terms of power gained per dollar spent, the return is relatively low compared to other parts like the Superchip, the Air Force One airbox kit, or a good cat-back exhaust system. Even underdrive pulleys, converting over to electric cooling fans, or a set of headers would give you a better bang-for-the-buck. Larger MAF's & TB's are fine parts, they're simply a bit further down the bang-for-the-buck list, if you will, than any of those other parts, for these vehicles.

Your stock MAF and throttle body both have enough basic raw airflow capacity to support significantly higher power levels than stock, and so as a result, you don't see a significant gain in power from installing a larger MAF until you have major mods done to the motor (n these vehicles, meaning something like a port & polish job on the cylinder heads or a supercharger). There are very few vehicles that in stock or lightly modified trim can benefit from an enlarged MAF or TB, one example, would be the 1996 & up Mustang Cobra 4.6 DOHC motor. That one is just a bit strangled from the factory, at least up thru the 1999 model year Cobra's, and guys who are just doing gear changes & MAF's are seeing worthwhile gains on that particular vehicle, but then, we're talking a 7200+ rpm heavy-breathing motor.

With regards to a "cold air sensor", I couldn't tell you what he means specifically. These vehicles all already have a sensor to report the temperature of the air entering the system, that is a critical sensor that will have an affect on A/F & timing as well, and they've been used for years and years on these vehicles.

The MAF reports the voltage required to re-heat the hot wire to it's core temperature, that is how it "measures" and reports incoming airflow to the ECU. That MAF may have 45% more total airflow *capacity* at a certain number of inches of water column on a flow bench (typically 1G), but your engine simply cannot make *use* of that increase in capacity of that component without major mods. The power gain on a stock motor from an aftermarket MAF really comes from the sampling tube being moved out of the direct airflow path, so that restriction at high rpm is reduced a bit, along with the leaning out of the A/F ratio.

I'll put it to you this way: we're a performance company, and on our vehicles we do not use them, unless there is a supercharger or other major mechanical modifications done to the engine of a particular vehicle, in which case we *will* use aftermarket MAF's & TB's, and this is all simply because the bang-for-the-buck isn't there without major motor mods.

It is not true that you are cheating yourself or that you won't get good benefit from installing a Superchip and an airbox kit and even a good exhaust without enlarging the MAF or throttle body (TB). You'll get very nice gains from those parts, each and every one of them, singularly or together, without using an aftermarket MAF or TB.

Please don't get me wrong, it's not that they aren't good parts, they sure are! They simply have their time & place, with regards to their actual bang-for-the-buck value, that's all.

I hope that helps a little bit, & please feel free to give us a shout if you want to go over any of this or anything else in more detail, etc., our contact info is just below for your convenience.

Have a great weekend,

 

Hey ram air, Take the sock off your foot before you put that foot in it!!!
Do you know when cervinis is coming out w/ the rest of the ram air hood? I have one like yours and would like to finish the project!!

 

Thank you for taking your valuable time to explain that so thoroughly. I was "teetering" one way and then the other on this issue. Now, I can quit teetering, and go on to something with more bang for my buck!! Like the Air Force One and my non-restrictive exhaust system on my 4.6 V8.

The electronic fan was a great idea to free up some horses that are constantly being used by the OEM fan. I can see where that creates a constant drag on the engine, just like having the air conditioning system on, low pressure tires and the absense of a hard lid over the bed. All of these things take power and reduce your gas mileage. Over a year's time, they can cost you an extra tank of fuel and think of the horsepower that was wasted.

Thanks again Mike!

 

Peties3,

I've talked to these guys about 3 weeks ago. Still nothing. I'll call Monday and found out what's going on. I'll keep you posted. They also told me that there only making it for the 5.4L. I didn't know there was that much of a difference in the 4.6L and the 5.4L. I really haven't taken a good look at the 5.4L's. I will now. Like I said I'll keep you posted Peties3.

 

Ram Air,
I don't think that there is a difference between the 2. Because the K&N kit is for both engines so one would suspect that is true for the ram air kit?

 

Then the ram air kit should fit the 4.6L'S too. Funny, you'd think they would know that and tell me that it will fit the 4.6L too. Again, Monday I'm calling them to see what the hell is going on. Peties3, they're making it harder then it has to be. I'll talk to sales. They seem to know what's going on before the tech's do anyway. I'll let you know.

 

Hi Bill,

You're more than welcome, anytime.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next!