I too don't see this computer stuff any different than the old days of changing jets or springs in the distributor or tweeking the timing. It is just done in a manner that is less messy, easier, and more parameters. You could do just as much damage back then, as now. Except with your finger tip wearing a black tie tux instead of being emersed in grease. The people who sell the tuners have to have some sophisication or they wouldn't be in business. I really don't think the edge tunning will wreck our pride and joy. I have no doubt that they have spent a lot of hours making it right. There support is another matter. And that is worth debating.

 

I agree!

 

I agree as well - except for two points:

1. You said Edge tuning - as in the tunes set as-shipped. I too believe they are safe ( notwithstanding factors beyond Edge's control, such as a truck running factory-lean). NOT after you 'customize' them - that's where the risk is ... if that too were safe, no disclaimer CYA would be necessary. The reality is, you have enough adjustability to be dangerous if abused.

2. The 'old days' did not include having a sophisticated control system ( piezo mutli-cylinder knock sensing ) that you cannot defeat, over-riding timing adjustments and effectively masking the presence of 'ping' - making seat of the pants tuning a crapshoot.

Here's something you may not know: in MT's custom max perf high octane tunes, if you really nail it from a dead stop or even a very slow roll (in an attempt, usually in vain, to keep some traction lol), the engine actually does give a brief ping or three - plainly audible, then quiets down as the KS sysem engages, just below the point of incipient knock, right on the ragged edge so to speak, using every last bit of the octane rating for best possible safe power. The behavior is known, but the method Mike uses to achieve this is, of course, proprietary. This is perfectly safe - and programmatically intentional.

Now - take the same engine, but without that bit of custom tuning wizardry - the end-user, having the access the Edge has w.r.t. timing advance, fuel octane, etc. Try to tweak it by using your ears to judge where that fine line is - you usually fail, since convential wisdom suggests you adjust it to the point where no knock is heard, you are actually further from the sweet spot and not making the power you could. The corollary is adjusting too far - without the customized knock sensing enhancements, you can get to a point where the PCM is reacting to knock you cannot hear, and pulling timing despite your belief it's advanced. Again - a sub-optimal result.

Makin' any sense? Regardless - thanks for the entertaining debate. You guys are all good

Cheers,
Bubba

 

How come in the diesel mags they test the edge and do not recommend using lvls 4 and 5 everyday or it will cause damage.

 

Okay guys, called Edge today, and a very nice guy named Aaron hooked me up. Turns out I had a bad update in my edge. Switched to the beta version, and all is great! He actually said he had heard of my problem before. Prolly another '04 issue Anyhoo, thanks for the "help"??? I kinda knew it was gonna turn into a "tune / not to tune" discussion. I have a problem with people posting in the tuner section as being opposed to tuning. Seems like a waste of time.
Guess I have better things to do.
Another praise for Edge's tech support though. Very helpful.

 

I'm not opposed to tuning - just the opposite. I AM opposed to changes applied to otherwise safe tunes done in a casual manner. You do know that the Edge has PID logging capability, don't you? At least consider the use of that feature - that you paid for - to help make informed decisions on the changes you make.

Don't know where you got that impression from ... but anyway I'm glad you got it all sorted out

Cheers
Bubba

 

Ditto. I'm tuned as well. I was just commenting on novices changing the Edge tunes. I'm sure they set them that way for a reason.

Good luck with it

 

Never even thought to update my edge. Just installed it, loaded level 2 and I'm driving that for a tank of gas. No issues yet. Definately the first thing I noticed was the firmer shifts. Getting on it to get on the highway was whole new experience. So far it's what I was looking for.

 

I think you guys are assuming I messed with it more than I did. All I did was change the firmness to 4 and adjusted for my rear end and tire size. All viable things to do. The other guys in these forums are adjusting to +12 and everything is okay, that's why I started out small. It wasn't like I was playing with the timing, or even changing WOT fuel or anything. I do like my truck, and don't want to nuke it. Anyways, I did get the impression that you were against tuning, and sorry I misjudged. There is alot of people in this forum that are, and I was generalizing that "they" should find some other forum to bash in. And as far as the TP (anti-Edge) guys go, I didn't want a boss mustang, so top performance wasn't a big deal. I don't mean that toward the people at Troyer since even they realize there is a place for the Edge, or they wouldn't sell them plus they are huge site supporters and offer very valuable advice. Sorry if I pissed everyone off, just seemed to get off the topic, when I wanted help, and had to weed through 3 pages of nothing related to my problem (minus a few posts) only to find nothing but criticism. Sorry, its been a long week. I know I may seem like a newbie with under 20 posts, but have been an active "lurker" and have appreciated the help from these forums for about 2 1/2 years.

 

No sweat, I never got upset and to be clear I wasn't referring to you with regards to the edge tweaking. It was in general to those who really start changing things.

I have a TP Xcal but I'm not anti-edge, I just felt safer having it tuned by a guy who went over everything with me and the details of my truck and is within driving distance if I need something.

 

^^^ ditto ^^^