He Guys,

First - thanks for the kudos mentioning the fact that we test "the beejeesus" out of everything before we offer it - that is certainly true, but in this case, is NOT why we are not advertising the LiveWire device.

We are not advertising it because it is not even close to shipping, nobody has ever shipped one, despite what some web sites are claiming.

As I just mentioned in another thread on the LiveWire, the President of SCT flew up here to see us and brought an initial prototype unit we discussed (the one we joked about doing the drop test on, some of you will remember), and we were very grateful for Rick Trudo flying up here to show us the unit - and we are very impressed by it.

And just as soon as it actually exists and is ready to ship, you can bet we'll be making it available, and we are working with them on it's development, talking with SCT every day about this unit, and have been for some time.

We simply do not believe in advertising a product that you cannot buy - I just don't' think that is the right thing to do - so in this case, we're not offering it because it's not available, not because it is available but we have not tested it it yet - but we thank you sincerely for giving us that credit, those of you who know us well know that we do insist on testing until we are happy with new hardware before we ship it.

And even then, there will be the occasional glitch, of course - I have yet to see any product roll out perfect from Day 1, that just never happens - you test as much as you can, and you do the best you can, and then you release it - there is always a difference between testing on a few dozen or a hundred vehicles versus what happens when you send a unit out by the thousands - that always tends to bring out any potential glitches, if they exist - but of course this is all very basic, you guys know this.

I just wanted to drop you a note to say thanks for giving us credit for our testing, and to let you know that in **this* case, that is not why we are not selling them - we're not selling them because they don't exist to be shipped yet.

We'll let everyone know just as soon as they are available!

 

im looking to gain power, but who is getting the best mpg gains with there chips? im looking to get the edge, but which ever has the best mpg gains would be the best for me. i am a pretty mellow driver so i think i would see the gains. i also plan on putting 35s on my truck and im trying to help out the mpg as much as possible so that when the tires go on it the mpg numbers dont look so bad. thanks

 

Looks like an XCal2 w/ an AF1 is next on my shopping list!

 

Troyer does fuel economy tunes, tow tunes, performance tunes and a mixture of all those. Give him a call and see what he has to say. If money is tight the Edge is the way to go. The Edge fit all my needs.

 

I have been running the Edge level 3 with 93 octane and averaging 17.2 to 17.4 mpg over several months. That is driving with an active foot. Last week, I returned to stock and got 15.1. That was with the same type driving and weather pretty much the same. It appears to me that the 93 octane tune will more than pay for the difference in fuel price. Here, 93 is 20 cents per gallon more than 87.

 

i can get around 18 with mine stock but its a two wheel drive and like i say im pretty mellow with my foot, but thanks for the replies i just want to get it up then when the tires go on the drop looks about what im getting now with stock i guess.

 

Well one thing I noticed is if I keep the speed around 65mph I average around 4mpg more on the 93 perf Troyer tune then the stock tune.If I punch it to around 70-75 I get around 2 mpg over the stock and @ 80 I get 1 mpg above stock tune.Driving around town I average about 1 to 2 mpg over stock tune.When I floor it alot I lose 1-4 mpg under stock tune average depending how heavy the foot stays!

 

I'm 1-2mpg better with my EDGE. Depending on A/c on or off, temperature, and traffic. Highway, stock best was 17.5. With EDGE, I can keep my foot out of it and get 19-20 depending on wind.

 

I've read all the threads about which is better and I think for me the edge is the way to go but I'm wondering if anybody has dyno sheets comparing edge numbers and a troyer tune on a stock truck? No datalogging, no other mods, just a standard troyer tune vs edge. Are the gains similar?

 

Hi Turtle,

This is an excellent example of how NOT to try to make a "comparison" - but I certainly understand what you are trying to determine, and I respect that, and will try to help.

There is no such thing as a "standard" Troyer tune. The tunes we do are CUSTOM tunes that go much further in depth than ANY off the shelf device does, and causes even a bone-stock truck to perform better than with any off the shelf device.

Simply put, nobody else in the aftermarket has anywhere near the amount of experience tuning these trucks that we do - all it takes is one quick use of the SEARCH feature here to see how many Edge owners have switched over to our tuning and raved about the difference.

We have specialized in tuning these vehicles for 15 years - nobody else has that kind of experience in tuning these trucks, nor does anyone else get as much safe & sustainable performance improvement as we do - nor should they be expected to, as they simply don't have the many years of specializing in these vehicles that we do - nobody does, we're the only people that truly specialize in F-150 performance. Heck, we darn near created the modern F-150 performance market, and we provide assistance to many manufacturers of all types of performance parts for these trucks as a result of our expertise.

Additionally, a dyno is about the worst possible way to make a "performance comparison," most people think dynos are some kind of mythically accurate machine, when few things could be further from the truth. To prove that point, we used to de-tune trucks by removing 20 RWHP from them, and still make them out-perform trucks that made significantly more power on the dyno - that's easy to do.

See, it's about far more than just what you can make a dyno say. Yes, raw power numbers look nice, and yes, we make plenty - virtually everyone here acknowledges the fact that we make more power than Edge does, and more than any other off the shelf device does. That is well known, all anyone needs to do is actually spend some time reading the boards here.

But the proof is in the actual driving of the vehicle, doing things like actual timed acceleration testing, to see what the actual difference in *performance* is - you don't drive a dyno number, you drive a vehicle - and it's not what a dyno says that determines how well the vehicle runs, it's how well the vehicle actually runs.

Just keep in mind that a dyno number is one simple bit of data, and is often vastly overrated - and that is coming form someone who has a long-standing reputation of out-powering off the shelf products on the dyno.

I think your question really gets down to one simple thing - will our tuning out-perform the Edge or any other off the shelf tuning on a bone-stock vehicle?

Yes, it certainly will - and has - many, many times.

I hope this gives you a bit more info, & best of luck whatever you decide, my friend - and Merry CHristmas!!

 

Actually, I never doubted that a custom tune from you would out perform the edge. what I really want to know is if the difference is enough to make it worth giving up the cool little extras the edge provides (extra guages) and the difference in cost? that's why I was asking about dyno numbers. Edge claims 35HP and 55ft/lbs (actually about 20HP from what I've read). Obviously, TP is going to be higher numbers (or closer to 35 than 20). Like I said. I've read all the other threads and I have no doubt that if I want the most power out of my stock motor, the best feeling shifts and over all best performance, Troyer Performance and the xcal2 is the way to go. I also like the idea of being able to monitor more than just my speed and rpm's though. I'll probably end up buying both or just waiting for the Livewire but if there is a little more information available to help me decide, I'd like to see it. Even if it's only estimated.