Ethanol in gas ( Tune change? )
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: The Ocean State
Ethanol in gas ( Tune change? )
With the new introduction of Ethanol in the local gas here ( was MTBE)..... I have noticed a pretty obvious change in performance.
I have a 5.4L with a Troyer Xcal-2 that Mike did for me early last year. The gas just recently changed here ( in Rhode Island) within the last couple months.
Is this common? Should I send it back for a "Re-tune" ??
Nothing has changed on my truck. I just keep up with normal maintenance as usual.
Thanks,
jon
I have a 5.4L with a Troyer Xcal-2 that Mike did for me early last year. The gas just recently changed here ( in Rhode Island) within the last couple months.
Is this common? Should I send it back for a "Re-tune" ??
Nothing has changed on my truck. I just keep up with normal maintenance as usual.
Thanks,
jon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Area
How much ethanol?From what I understand the E85 Ethanol mix is 100 octane
Where I live it is a standard 10% mix by law and the octane on the pump is what we go by!The difference now is the last of the winter blends are being used.You need not change anything.Do not use e85 mix unless your truck is made for its' use.A vehicle manufactured to use unleaded fuel cannot use E85 unless you get the fuel tank changed,the fuel lines changed and I think the fuel pump.E85 is more corrosive and will do serious damage to a vehicle that is not made for its' use
Where I live it is a standard 10% mix by law and the octane on the pump is what we go by!The difference now is the last of the winter blends are being used.You need not change anything.Do not use e85 mix unless your truck is made for its' use.A vehicle manufactured to use unleaded fuel cannot use E85 unless you get the fuel tank changed,the fuel lines changed and I think the fuel pump.E85 is more corrosive and will do serious damage to a vehicle that is not made for its' use
Last edited by TSDan; May 17, 2006 at 06:57 PM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: MI
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: Plano, TX
I believe he is talking about the mix of ethanol 10- 15% in with the gasoline instead of the NTB (I think that is the name) that they have been using for years. They are doing this with some of the gas here that we get in Texas. I noticed that the average MPG on this last tank that I calculated got 10-11 mpg half city/half highway driving. I will make sure and not fill up with an ethanol mix gasoline until I absolutely have to.
I would just try to find a gas station that is not blending ethanol with the gasoline instead of NTB ( I think thats the name) for right not.
I would just try to find a gas station that is not blending ethanol with the gasoline instead of NTB ( I think thats the name) for right not.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Grand Forks, ND
For those of us up here in the north country, ethanol in gas is common. If I asked how many of you that live down south have ever heard of heat in the yellow bottle. It is basically ethanol to put in the tank during the winter months to absorb water, it can also start a vehicle. We have our 87, 89 with 10% ethanol, and 91 or above. Also with the introduction of E85 which is 15% gas and 85% ethanol. I have an edge tuner and commonly run 89 with 10% ethanol and have had no problems with it what so ever. I would not reccomend running E85.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Chesapeake VA
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: The Ocean State
Originally Posted by Tucker1154
We have seen A/F's go as much as 3/4 point leaner with the new gas here in VA (10% E)
Jay
Jay
Exactly, Ethanol adds oxygen.
The MTBE that has been being added did contain an ethanol component but not in such volume it is now.
With more Ethanol comes more oxygen = more of a potential for a slight lean condition.
Hence my question about the tune.
Maybe Mike will peak in here.......
Thanks guys
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by Tucker1154
We have seen A/F's go as much as 3/4 point leaner with the new gas here in VA (10% E)
Jay
Jay
As for running E85. Within a month or so, I will be running E85 straight from the pump and then intend to mfgr my own. Sound crazy?? Perhaps; but, as long as I get enough fuel into the chamber, the truck will be alright.
Last edited by tschaid; May 19, 2006 at 01:21 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Area
tschaid said*As for running E85. Within a month or so, I will be running E85 straight from the pump and then intend to mfgr my own. Sound crazy?? Perhaps; but, as long as I get enough fuel into the chamber, the truck will be alright.[/QUOTE]
Damn-it boy send me a gallon cause I'm thirsty and I love corngrain!!!!!!!
Damn-it boy send me a gallon cause I'm thirsty and I love corngrain!!!!!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,835
Likes: 0
From: Vienna, Georgia
Originally Posted by JerryM
Lots of information on E85 here: http://xcelplus.com/e85/article.htm
-Jerry
-Jerry
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Omaha, NE
RI995.4L, Found this in another thread from Mike Troyer:
So there is your answer 
Dano
Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
I'm Sooo glad this topic came up, as it is indeed a hot one.
...the answer many of you are looking for is NO, your do NOT need tuning changes - your PCM will be able to keep up with this change no problem, the 10% ethanol-blended fuels have about a 14.2:1 stoich point and the O2 sensors will automatically start switching there instead.
The main thing is that you simply lose a little bit of peak power and fuel mileage due to the lower BTU content of the portion of the fuel that is ethanol.
And by the way - for many years now, it has been a *requirement* that the fuel systems of all vehicles here in the US be able to run on a 10% ethanol mixture - yes, alcohol-based fuels are indeed more corrosive, and they have about half the BTU content of "normal" gasoline - but they also have a high octane number, and if tuned for to the nth degree, we could get a 20% power gain from it - why do you think Indy cars run on methanol?
So all of you can rest regarding is it OK to run your custom tuning on 10% ethanol blends, you've been doing it for years & years already, every winter - you just don't make quite as much power or get quite as good fuel economy, basically.
I hope that helps,
...the answer many of you are looking for is NO, your do NOT need tuning changes - your PCM will be able to keep up with this change no problem, the 10% ethanol-blended fuels have about a 14.2:1 stoich point and the O2 sensors will automatically start switching there instead.
The main thing is that you simply lose a little bit of peak power and fuel mileage due to the lower BTU content of the portion of the fuel that is ethanol.
And by the way - for many years now, it has been a *requirement* that the fuel systems of all vehicles here in the US be able to run on a 10% ethanol mixture - yes, alcohol-based fuels are indeed more corrosive, and they have about half the BTU content of "normal" gasoline - but they also have a high octane number, and if tuned for to the nth degree, we could get a 20% power gain from it - why do you think Indy cars run on methanol?
So all of you can rest regarding is it OK to run your custom tuning on 10% ethanol blends, you've been doing it for years & years already, every winter - you just don't make quite as much power or get quite as good fuel economy, basically.
I hope that helps,
Dano
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: The Ocean State
Hey thanks a bunch Dan 
I must be suffering from another underlying problem then. Damned if I know what it might be ......unless something dies or throws a code I am stumped.
Thanks again folks
Jon
I must be suffering from another underlying problem then. Damned if I know what it might be ......unless something dies or throws a code I am stumped.
Thanks again folks
Jon
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by TSDan
tschaid said*As for running E85. Within a month or so, I will be running E85 straight from the pump and then intend to mfgr my own. Sound crazy?? Perhaps; but, as long as I get enough fuel into the chamber, the truck will be alright.
[/QUOTE]I haven't been called "boy" in a long time. Dunno who you are; but, "boy" is not appropriate. I knew my comments would create somewhat of a stir. Hmm. That's ok. Unfortunately, the ATF allows the manufacture of acholol in your backyard only if the result is not drinkable so while I would love to provide some for you, I can't.
Also, to Mike Troyer's point. 50% BTU content when compared to Gasoline. Mike, you and I have had a number of conversations and each time I have talked with you, I have walked away with more knowledge than I had before; but, this I have to challenge. 50% ??? I sure would like to know what data you have that the Ethanol community does not. Everything I have read suggests the BTU content is in the 80% range not 1/2 as you stated.