Something just occured to me... I believe you were the only person that I've come across that tested both the EDGE and Xcal2 and said the EDGE was worse on 0-60, 1/4, overall performance etc. Considering the EDGE wasn't changing your poor AF ratio from the factory it would have had abnormally poor performance when compared to the Xcal2 that not only added aggressive tuning, but also addressed the AF ratio making it seem even MORe night and day better.

So, basically...two things strike me from that, first being that I guess a solid plus of the Troyer tune would be that *if* you were one of the unlucky few to have abnormal AF from the factory you would have that fixed, and two the EDGE tuner has yet to perform worse than an xcal 2 by anyone with NORMAL AF ratios that tried both.

So the real question is...do I feel lucky? lol

 

The Xcal2 is not going to fix that out of the box.

How could it?

Until you get to a dyno and do the data logging, the A/F ratio is going to be the 'canned' setting that comes with the Xcal2.

The Xcal2 isn't going to know if your truck is rich or lean, out of the box.

 

Actually, you can make more power running lean.......just at the expense of engine life. My guess is the lean condition is at WOT....some one verify that? The Edge gives you the capability to adjust WOT fuel. Someone else on hear, mojo I think, had both....and his times with the Edge were better, but he had not done the datalogging and retunning.


Also, someone has yet to explain how you get by only datalogging once?...unless of course...everything is perfect the first time...no retuning needed. Shouldn't you have to do it anytime after Mike changes the tune? Make a change......check to see what difference the change made? Seems to me you need to datalog and retune untill it's right. Just saying.

I sure would like to get over to a dyno just see how my Edge tune is.

 

That is probably very true about why I got such poor performance from the Edge. The other thing you must keep in mind is I didn't use the Edge as my timing method. I chose not to use the Edge timing, because I still haven't seen anyone verify it's accuracy.

 

You will get more power running lean, to a point. It's not as simple as that though.

As far as datalogging goes, I'm sure there are certain cases that might require more than one datalog session, but for the most part, it's just for very minor "fine tuning" of the tunes. Many times, no changes or very minor changes will need to be made. As long as there are only minor changes to the tuning being made, there's really no good reason for a second round of datalogging.

There are 2 things that I would like to see. One is some actual track times using the Edge, or even some video at this point. The second would be some before and after dyno numbers. We've all seen both of these things from Xcal2 owners, but I've not seen any from Edge users.

 

If I remember correctly, several people have dynoed their trucks with the Edge, I will have to look for their posts....some might be on other forums. As far as before and after times.........though they are not from the track.........there is alot of that.....since the Edge can do the performance tests on board. Even if you don't believe the numbers are accurate, I believe for comparison purposes from stock to tuned... should be pretty good. I think if a person has all the right parameters entered (actual tire size, gear ratio,etc.)....the Edge should be very accurate......math doesn't lie.

I believe the dyno numbers are all around the same ballpark between the two, but don't know how to really critique them since their on different trucks on different dynos on different days in different places.

It would be cool if some guys with the Edge could make it to Troyer's Dyno day......would be interesting. I am surprised that Mike sells the Edge, but really never comments on it......I would think, out of curiousity, he would throw an Edge tuned truck on his dyno?

 

I know the Edge will time acceleration runs, I'm just not fully confident in the accuracy of those. There are just too many variables involved. You must have gear ratio input correctly, as well as tire size. The other factor is the method it uses. It uses the same signal as the speedo to determine speed, right? Well, the speedo actually lags behind a bit on hard acceleration runs. I'm not trying to say it's not accurate, just that it hasn't been proven to be accurate.

I personally use a G-tech to make all timed runs, as I've seen it proven over and over to be accurate. I plan on taking mine to the track next Saturday and comparing it's timing to the track timing. I'd like to see someone do that with the Edge as well.

I remember back when the hype over the Edge first started, and there was a claim of 60hp and 60ft/lbs gains being made on the Edge tuning. This is why I like to see some real before and after dyno numbers. I wouldn't be surprised a bit to see some Edge numbers posted after the next Dyno Day that Troyer has though.

 

The signal (electrical) doesn't really "lag"....the speedometer (mechanical) lags. If your tire size is correct and your gear ratio is correct.....if you know your engine rpm.....you know your speed.....so basically your speed comes from your engine rpm (transmitted through tranny ratio and using math takes into account your axle gear ratio and tire circumference (revs per mile)......which shouldn't have much lag time (speed of traveling electrons and possibly Edge sampling rate)....negligible....I would think.

I wanted a fair comparison between my Edge and Stock settings........so I used the stock tire size setting (I verified by back calculating from rpm vs. speed) and for my 4x4FX4 I had 0-60 times stock avg. of 8.6s and with Edge level3 avg. 7.2s. By the way, my stock program uses a tire size about 20mm larger (circumference) than when compared to actually physically measuring the tire (3 rotation method), but I'm sure this is constantly changing due to tire wear and that Ford picks some average number to use.

I have noticed that after downloading a tune........it gets better after a period of driving time......must have something to do with the PCM "learning". I believe I have read that this similar with the Xcal2 also.

Does anyone know what the "drive cycle" is for these trucks for the "learning"? I have to believe that there is some set driving patterns that the PCM uses for this process. Seems like it would be a very complicated program if it was a "constant" learning process that was "on-going". Does anyone have any specifics on this?

 

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=231357

it was cobraman that did the before and after dyno using the edge

 

MosineeFx4:
If your going to to find your speed using all the variables mentioned you might want to add the transmission ratios' as well.I didn't take analasys in school so I trust noone.Speed is the sensation of the mind at a rapid rate of movement,and the enursha created after the contact of a solid object bigger then the object creating speed!

 

Yeah, the gear ratios of the tranny are included, but since you can't set those in the Edge I didn't mention them (I'll edit it for ya). And when I say I rpm ...I mean as transmitted through what ever gear your in.....mph = function of the rpm and tranny ratio and axle ratio and tire circumference.

The inertia is actually what makes the contact .................................................. .............. hurt.

 

Why would you by a custom tune w/out datalogging?

 

These Edge vs Xcal2 pissing contests are getting real old.

 

This can all be simply boiled down to a few points.

The Edge is a great off the shelf (canned) tune for STOCK trucks. It is a set of parameters that will work across all supported models. It has to support the lowest common denominators across the computer codes and truck models because it is an off the shelf tune.
It has a cool display module that some people really like. It is not for modified trucks.

The Xcal2 is a CUSTOM tune for your truck, not everytruck with the same computer code. It is tuned for your driving style, your modifications and anything else you request on your tuning form. You are getting the tuners experience with these trucks in your tune.

Of course the xcal2 will beat the edge in those cases but the edge may be all a lot of people need.

In the end it is all about what is important to the end user. You buy what you like because it is what you want. Isn't choice a good thing?

I want an Xcal2!

 

So since the AF ratios are the main sticking point for most, I would like to know if it would be possible to use an EDGE unit to adjust (properly) and fix AF ratios if the truck was dynoed. anyone know? And would it be very difficult for joe blow to get it right?