ordered tuner, questions about intakes
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From: Rio Rancho, NM
ordered tuner, questions about intakes
Hey I order my tuner about a week ago, pacing around the house waiting for it to arrive. I have a question about data logging. I would like to add the mac intake that I have sitting around the garage to my 2004 fx4. The question that I have is, do I have to data log the intake? Or will the excal learn the intake? The mac intake was tripping ses (lean code) found this out after taking the truck to ford and having the code read. I called the manufacture and they will not give me my money back, even though it is tripping the ses. If I were to purchase an air force one will I have to get an update to my excal? Or will I have to data log that intake?
thank you
antelope555
thank you
antelope555
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Antelope,
Personally, I would recommend NOT using that intake kit - they do cause lean conditions that will require extensive datalogging & several rounds of tuning adjustments, at best, to get it in the ballpark. And just as you experienced, they aren't known for their customer service.
Now of course, we *can* tune for virtually anything that is tunable, so to speak - I say it that way simply because there are some intake kits that are just so far off they really aren't "reasonably" tunable without a LOT of work. And that's really a new aspect in these F-150's - it used to be, in the 2003 & earlier trucks, that you could throw on any decent intake kit & generally be OK & easily tunable - but with the 5.4 3V's and a lot of intake kits out there, especially the lower-cost intakes, that is no longer the case.
The datalogging you will need to do can be done with the XCalibrator 2 and a PC running Windows XP, and then you will also need to get wideband Air/Fuel ratio testing - and this will usually need to be done at least 2-3 times to get where we're happy with how the engine is running and be properly tuned for each individual vehicle & mods combo.
I do strongly recommend datalogging with *any* intake kit on these trucks, because the MAF transfer function varies from one truck to the next much more than you might think, and being tuners, we really like to see each vehicle dialed in spot-on - that's the whole idea of *custom* tuning, and is why we provide the datalogging instructions to each of our custom tuning customers. So yes, I would say that even with the AF1 we prefer to see the datalogging be done, that is always the best way to do things.
As long as that MAC intake does not leak, the MAF sensor is sealed properly, etc., it has the *potential* for being tunable, so you might want to start off trying that route, rather than spending the money for an AF1 - personally, as you probably already know by now, I prefer the AF1 and it will make more power, but that is strictly up to you!
Just remember, once you get your new tuning, you'll want to datalog right away with the MAC intake installed, and then put the stock intake back on until we get that data and make some changes to email out to you. And we'll just dial it in from there, if you want to stick with your existing intake kit.
Good luck!
Personally, I would recommend NOT using that intake kit - they do cause lean conditions that will require extensive datalogging & several rounds of tuning adjustments, at best, to get it in the ballpark. And just as you experienced, they aren't known for their customer service.
Now of course, we *can* tune for virtually anything that is tunable, so to speak - I say it that way simply because there are some intake kits that are just so far off they really aren't "reasonably" tunable without a LOT of work. And that's really a new aspect in these F-150's - it used to be, in the 2003 & earlier trucks, that you could throw on any decent intake kit & generally be OK & easily tunable - but with the 5.4 3V's and a lot of intake kits out there, especially the lower-cost intakes, that is no longer the case.
The datalogging you will need to do can be done with the XCalibrator 2 and a PC running Windows XP, and then you will also need to get wideband Air/Fuel ratio testing - and this will usually need to be done at least 2-3 times to get where we're happy with how the engine is running and be properly tuned for each individual vehicle & mods combo.
I do strongly recommend datalogging with *any* intake kit on these trucks, because the MAF transfer function varies from one truck to the next much more than you might think, and being tuners, we really like to see each vehicle dialed in spot-on - that's the whole idea of *custom* tuning, and is why we provide the datalogging instructions to each of our custom tuning customers. So yes, I would say that even with the AF1 we prefer to see the datalogging be done, that is always the best way to do things.
As long as that MAC intake does not leak, the MAF sensor is sealed properly, etc., it has the *potential* for being tunable, so you might want to start off trying that route, rather than spending the money for an AF1 - personally, as you probably already know by now, I prefer the AF1 and it will make more power, but that is strictly up to you!
Just remember, once you get your new tuning, you'll want to datalog right away with the MAC intake installed, and then put the stock intake back on until we get that data and make some changes to email out to you. And we'll just dial it in from there, if you want to stick with your existing intake kit.
Good luck!
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 494
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From: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
Hi Antelope,
Personally, I would recommend NOT using that intake kit - they do cause lean conditions that will require extensive datalogging & several rounds of tuning adjustments, at best, to get it in the ballpark. And just as you experienced, they aren't known for their customer service.
Now of course, we *can* tune for virtually anything that is tunable, so to speak - I say it that way simply because there are some intake kits that are just so far off they really aren't "reasonably" tunable without a LOT of work. And that's really a new aspect in these F-150's - it used to be, in the 2003 & earlier trucks, that you could throw on any decent intake kit & generally be OK & easily tunable - but with the 5.4 3V's and a lot of intake kits out there, especially the lower-cost intakes, that is no longer the case.
The datalogging you will need to do can be done with the XCalibrator 2 and a PC running Windows XP, and then you will also need to get wideband Air/Fuel ratio testing - and this will usually need to be done at least 2-3 times to get where we're happy with how the engine is running and be properly tuned for each individual vehicle & mods combo.
I do strongly recommend datalogging with *any* intake kit on these trucks, because the MAF transfer function varies from one truck to the next much more than you might think, and being tuners, we really like to see each vehicle dialed in spot-on - that's the whole idea of *custom* tuning, and is why we provide the datalogging instructions to each of our custom tuning customers. So yes, I would say that even with the AF1 we prefer to see the datalogging be done, that is always the best way to do things.
As long as that MAC intake does not leak, the MAF sensor is sealed properly, etc., it has the *potential* for being tunable, so you might want to start off trying that route, rather than spending the money for an AF1 - personally, as you probably already know by now, I prefer the AF1 and it will make more power, but that is strictly up to you!
Just remember, once you get your new tuning, you'll want to datalog right away with the MAC intake installed, and then put the stock intake back on until we get that data and make some changes to email out to you. And we'll just dial it in from there, if you want to stick with your existing intake kit.
Good luck!
Personally, I would recommend NOT using that intake kit - they do cause lean conditions that will require extensive datalogging & several rounds of tuning adjustments, at best, to get it in the ballpark. And just as you experienced, they aren't known for their customer service.
Now of course, we *can* tune for virtually anything that is tunable, so to speak - I say it that way simply because there are some intake kits that are just so far off they really aren't "reasonably" tunable without a LOT of work. And that's really a new aspect in these F-150's - it used to be, in the 2003 & earlier trucks, that you could throw on any decent intake kit & generally be OK & easily tunable - but with the 5.4 3V's and a lot of intake kits out there, especially the lower-cost intakes, that is no longer the case.
The datalogging you will need to do can be done with the XCalibrator 2 and a PC running Windows XP, and then you will also need to get wideband Air/Fuel ratio testing - and this will usually need to be done at least 2-3 times to get where we're happy with how the engine is running and be properly tuned for each individual vehicle & mods combo.
I do strongly recommend datalogging with *any* intake kit on these trucks, because the MAF transfer function varies from one truck to the next much more than you might think, and being tuners, we really like to see each vehicle dialed in spot-on - that's the whole idea of *custom* tuning, and is why we provide the datalogging instructions to each of our custom tuning customers. So yes, I would say that even with the AF1 we prefer to see the datalogging be done, that is always the best way to do things.
As long as that MAC intake does not leak, the MAF sensor is sealed properly, etc., it has the *potential* for being tunable, so you might want to start off trying that route, rather than spending the money for an AF1 - personally, as you probably already know by now, I prefer the AF1 and it will make more power, but that is strictly up to you!
Just remember, once you get your new tuning, you'll want to datalog right away with the MAC intake installed, and then put the stock intake back on until we get that data and make some changes to email out to you. And we'll just dial it in from there, if you want to stick with your existing intake kit.
Good luck!
Thanks for your always extensive and detailed posts and replies...
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
No, I'm saying that we prefer to see datalogging done with any change made to the air intake tract of any 3-valve engine, whether it's the 5.4 3V in the F-150 or the 4.6 3V in the 2005 & up Mustang, etc. And that the majority of intake kits we have seen for these vehicles do cause problems with A/F ratio control - and a lot of them cause BIG problems.
The vast majority of people do their mods in the order of best bang-for-the-buck, and of course our tuning is by AF1 the single best bang for the buck - or they will do one of our Stage packages, where they are doing several mods at once - including intake & tuning - so the datalogging is usually done rather early on in that regard, as most other parts like the typical bolt-on exhaust, e-fans, pulleys, etc do not affect tuning - the single biggest concern in the 3-valve motor is air intake tract changes.
The AF1's initial issues have actually been resolved, as there were a couple of them - one was the opening for the MAF sensor, where the laser cutting it was off a little bit in one corner and needed to be changed a bit, and then there were a couple of support pieces that were originally made of high-impact plastics that we had them change over to metal, due to them occasionally being damaged in shipment - all of that was taken care of some time back, and we aren't' seeing any issues at this point with current shipments.
The truth is, as anyone that has read our posts here for any length of time will know, we really couldn't care less about the name on the outside, who makes it, etc - what we care about are the effects & results. Whoever does the best job is who we like - that's how it works. In that regard, AF1 has generally done an excellent job, out-powers everyone else, and you cannot get a kit that is made of higher quality raw materials than their T304 aircraft grade polished S/S & associated hardware.
In fact. at our last dyno day we had a customer of ours do a remove & re-installation, as well as install another one on another owner's vehicle, and everyone there was amazed at how easy it went on and the quality of the kit compared to some of the posts they had read about - they all had a good laugh about those posting that it took a long time to install and other issues, as none of that was seen by anyone there.
We also carry the Airaid as you'll see on our site, as it's 1 of only 2 intake kits that we recommend for these vehicles, and was available long before the AF1 was finished - and they too, have had their own issues, and more of them than AF1, by the way, over the time they have been produced. It's not going to gain as much power as the AF1, and will be noisier in terms of the amount of intake "moan" on part-throttle - but it certainly works well, and will generally be OK to use, so if that is your choice, it's a good one as well IMHO.
Good luck!
The vast majority of people do their mods in the order of best bang-for-the-buck, and of course our tuning is by AF1 the single best bang for the buck - or they will do one of our Stage packages, where they are doing several mods at once - including intake & tuning - so the datalogging is usually done rather early on in that regard, as most other parts like the typical bolt-on exhaust, e-fans, pulleys, etc do not affect tuning - the single biggest concern in the 3-valve motor is air intake tract changes.
The AF1's initial issues have actually been resolved, as there were a couple of them - one was the opening for the MAF sensor, where the laser cutting it was off a little bit in one corner and needed to be changed a bit, and then there were a couple of support pieces that were originally made of high-impact plastics that we had them change over to metal, due to them occasionally being damaged in shipment - all of that was taken care of some time back, and we aren't' seeing any issues at this point with current shipments.
The truth is, as anyone that has read our posts here for any length of time will know, we really couldn't care less about the name on the outside, who makes it, etc - what we care about are the effects & results. Whoever does the best job is who we like - that's how it works. In that regard, AF1 has generally done an excellent job, out-powers everyone else, and you cannot get a kit that is made of higher quality raw materials than their T304 aircraft grade polished S/S & associated hardware.
In fact. at our last dyno day we had a customer of ours do a remove & re-installation, as well as install another one on another owner's vehicle, and everyone there was amazed at how easy it went on and the quality of the kit compared to some of the posts they had read about - they all had a good laugh about those posting that it took a long time to install and other issues, as none of that was seen by anyone there.
We also carry the Airaid as you'll see on our site, as it's 1 of only 2 intake kits that we recommend for these vehicles, and was available long before the AF1 was finished - and they too, have had their own issues, and more of them than AF1, by the way, over the time they have been produced.
It's not going to gain as much power as the AF1, and will be noisier in terms of the amount of intake "moan" on part-throttle - but it certainly works well, and will generally be OK to use, so if that is your choice, it's a good one as well IMHO. Good luck!
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; Sep 26, 2005 at 04:39 PM.
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From: WV
Yeah I was the one who had the AF1 installed by Marc at dyno day. It was installed around 15 mins or less. Marc did an excellent job. I love the AF1. The sound it makes when going full throttle is awesome. That combine with my dual exhaust makes it hard to keep out of the throttle. I just wanted to add my 2 cents in on the AF1. Its a great product and easy to install.
Ski
Ski
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
The AF1's initial issues have actually been resolved, as there were a couple of them - one was the opening for the MAF sensor, where the laser cutting it was off a little bit in one corner and needed to be changed a bit, and then there were a couple of support pieces that were originally made of high-impact plastics that we had them change over to metal, due to them occasionally being damaged in shipment - all of that was taken care of some time back, and we aren't' seeing any issues at this point with current shipments.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 134
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Data logging can only be done with a PC running Window XP right? So us Mac users will be outta luck, or have to find someone to do this for us? I ordered the AF1 kit along with the Xcal2, and should now be near the top of the list so I'm a little concerned by this. I figured since I ordered them together the tuning would take the mods into consideration, is that so? or is it still recommended to data log anyway?
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by wheelerfreak
Data logging can only be done with a PC running Window XP right? So us Mac users will be outta luck, or have to find someone to do this for us? I ordered the AF1 kit along with the Xcal2, and should now be near the top of the list so I'm a little concerned by this. I figured since I ordered them together the tuning would take the mods into consideration, is that so? or is it still recommended to data log anyway?
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 494
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From: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
No, I'm saying that we prefer to see datalogging done with any change made to the air intake tract of any 3-valve engine, whether it's the 5.4 3V in the F-150 or the 4.6 3V in the 2005 & up Mustang, etc. And that the majority of intake kits we have seen for these vehicles do cause problems with A/F ratio control - and a lot of them cause BIG problems.
The vast majority of people do their mods in the order of best bang-for-the-buck, and of course our tuning is by AF1 the single best bang for the buck - or they will do one of our Stage packages, where they are doing several mods at once - including intake & tuning - so the datalogging is usually done rather early on in that regard, as most other parts like the typical bolt-on exhaust, e-fans, pulleys, etc do not affect tuning - the single biggest concern in the 3-valve motor is air intake tract changes.
The AF1's initial issues have actually been resolved, as there were a couple of them - one was the opening for the MAF sensor, where the laser cutting it was off a little bit in one corner and needed to be changed a bit, and then there were a couple of support pieces that were originally made of high-impact plastics that we had them change over to metal, due to them occasionally being damaged in shipment - all of that was taken care of some time back, and we aren't' seeing any issues at this point with current shipments.
The truth is, as anyone that has read our posts here for any length of time will know, we really couldn't care less about the name on the outside, who makes it, etc - what we care about are the effects & results. Whoever does the best job is who we like - that's how it works. In that regard, AF1 has generally done an excellent job, out-powers everyone else, and you cannot get a kit that is made of higher quality raw materials than their T304 aircraft grade polished S/S & associated hardware.
In fact. at our last dyno day we had a customer of ours do a remove & re-installation, as well as install another one on another owner's vehicle, and everyone there was amazed at how easy it went on and the quality of the kit compared to some of the posts they had read about - they all had a good laugh about those posting that it took a long time to install and other issues, as none of that was seen by anyone there.
We also carry the Airaid as you'll see on our site, as it's 1 of only 2 intake kits that we recommend for these vehicles, and was available long before the AF1 was finished - and they too, have had their own issues, and more of them than AF1, by the way, over the time they have been produced. It's not going to gain as much power as the AF1, and will be noisier in terms of the amount of intake "moan" on part-throttle - but it certainly works well, and will generally be OK to use, so if that is your choice, it's a good one as well IMHO.
Good luck!
The vast majority of people do their mods in the order of best bang-for-the-buck, and of course our tuning is by AF1 the single best bang for the buck - or they will do one of our Stage packages, where they are doing several mods at once - including intake & tuning - so the datalogging is usually done rather early on in that regard, as most other parts like the typical bolt-on exhaust, e-fans, pulleys, etc do not affect tuning - the single biggest concern in the 3-valve motor is air intake tract changes.
The AF1's initial issues have actually been resolved, as there were a couple of them - one was the opening for the MAF sensor, where the laser cutting it was off a little bit in one corner and needed to be changed a bit, and then there were a couple of support pieces that were originally made of high-impact plastics that we had them change over to metal, due to them occasionally being damaged in shipment - all of that was taken care of some time back, and we aren't' seeing any issues at this point with current shipments.
The truth is, as anyone that has read our posts here for any length of time will know, we really couldn't care less about the name on the outside, who makes it, etc - what we care about are the effects & results. Whoever does the best job is who we like - that's how it works. In that regard, AF1 has generally done an excellent job, out-powers everyone else, and you cannot get a kit that is made of higher quality raw materials than their T304 aircraft grade polished S/S & associated hardware.
In fact. at our last dyno day we had a customer of ours do a remove & re-installation, as well as install another one on another owner's vehicle, and everyone there was amazed at how easy it went on and the quality of the kit compared to some of the posts they had read about - they all had a good laugh about those posting that it took a long time to install and other issues, as none of that was seen by anyone there.
We also carry the Airaid as you'll see on our site, as it's 1 of only 2 intake kits that we recommend for these vehicles, and was available long before the AF1 was finished - and they too, have had their own issues, and more of them than AF1, by the way, over the time they have been produced.
It's not going to gain as much power as the AF1, and will be noisier in terms of the amount of intake "moan" on part-throttle - but it certainly works well, and will generally be OK to use, so if that is your choice, it's a good one as well IMHO. Good luck!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,009
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by F150 Duke
Could you speak to the two different types of AF1 tubes that were being sent out? Was there a change in the tube shape (generation change)? If so, would that impact performance gains?
Duke
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by F150 Duke
I still can't find anything that says why there were two different types of tubes being sent out and what the differences in gains and reasoning for the two were.
Duke
Duke
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...light=af1+tube
Hope this helps.
Cheers
What's a Computer good for, anyway???
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,009
Likes: 0
From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by MGDfan
Jeez Duke - this took me perhaps 5 seconds to find using Advanced Search & a simple filter. And as just a simple caveman, I suck at searching
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...light=af1+tube
Hope this helps.
Cheers
What's a Computer good for, anyway???
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...light=af1+tube
Hope this helps.
Cheers
What's a Computer good for, anyway???
Um so yeah, feeling kinda dumb for not being able to find that. Oh well, never was really good with the "advanced" searches. lol, sorry, and thanks.
Duke
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by F150 Duke
Um so yeah, feeling kinda dumb for not being able to find that. Oh well, never was really good with the "advanced" searches. lol, sorry, and thanks.
Duke
Duke
Another tip - if you install the Google Toolbar on your desktop, you can use it's superior Search features to find stuff within this forum. It's a great tool!
http://toolbar.google.com/?promo=mor-tb-en
Cheers, bud.
Vic
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
I'll try to clear this up briefly, and then for further details, you can call us.
First - Those who want any info other than the *volumes* of info I have spent many hours typing painstakingly for everyone here and already posted - and are all readily available by using the SEARCH engine here - you will need to please call us. The reality is I can't type out the same thing 10,000 times, that is what the SEARCH engine is provided to you here for, so that you can look up anything that has ever been posted, any time, 24 hrs a day, & thanks for your understanding on that.
Briefly.......
The bottom line is, yes, of course we take into consideration anything that is on the CPW's when we tune the vehicle - absolutely, that is precisely why we ask you all of that detailed info, so we can take that into consideration. But what some apparently do not understand is that there is no "magic wand" that can be waved to make each and every individual vehicle automatically & perfectly spot-on with no data - heck, they aren't like that when bone stock, so they certainly can't be like that when custom tuned.
Remember - this is CUSTOM tuning, not some silly guesswork off-the-shelf crap that leaves these trucks running way too lean and making nowhere near the power they should make, etc. As everyone who has ordered that tuning from us already knows by reading the documentation they received from us in the same email that contained their custom programming worksheets, and again in the additional docs they get once they actually receive their tuning, datalogging is the key to getting any vehicle dialed in spot-on. And it's very easy to do with our docs, as they are written to take the first-timer thru this very smoothly with no mistakes.
Now - can you safely drive your vehicle once you first get our tuning BEFORE you datalog? Yes, you sure can in most cases - meaning, if you have a 2003 or earlier F-150, yes, and if you have a 2004 or newer 5.4 3V truck, the ones that are most sensitive to air intake tract changes, yes, you can still do that as long as you use a properly installed Air Force One or Airaid brand intake kit - for any other intake kits we will no make any such assurance, you;re going to have to datalog right away on the rest of the brands of intake kits. Those are the only 2 intake kits we approve of on the 5.4 3V F-150's, as they gain the most power and have the best design in terms of A/F ratio control while still making nice power gains, so that is why we mention those specific brands of intake kits for the 5.4 3V F-150's, just to be clear.
But it's NOT going to be fully optimal until you datalog & get us that info.
Let me explain something - See, our custom tuning package is designed to give you the same result as if you brought your vehicle here to us and we have it on the dyno and are tuning it on the dyno - we can do that very same thing without ever seeing the vehicle, and that is by doing the simple & easy datalogging via our thorough and easy to follow instructions.
So yes, the baseline tuning we provide is safe to drive on, but it's not finished, it's not fully finalized (in our opinion) until the *data* is in and we can verify exactly how each individual vehicle is running. That kind of precision is why the majority of people who have their F-150's tuned come to us - for our expertise, as nobody else has the kind of info, experience & skills on these trucks that we do.
So while yes, it is true that you can take your tuning once it arrives from us and drive the vehicle and never datalog it and it will be basically safe to drive in most (but not 100%) cases - we really like to dial in each vehicle spot-on - but then we're tuners, so we're born data hounds.
I know this can be a bit confusing, perhaps even nerve-wracking - so just so we're clear, in these 2004 & up vehicles with the newer ETC systems (as it seems to be those who have the most questions on this in this thread), yes, we can tune the vehicle and it will be safe to drive without you datalogging it - but it's not going to be all that it could be until you datalog & we make those fine adjustments that make the difference between a baseline custom tune and a fully & properly completed custom tune, that's all.
I hope that eases your minds so you don't have to worry.
Read the boards, use the SEARCH filters here for any info you want on this (as it's all been gone over many times), and read your Troyer Performance documentation. And if you still have questions after all of that, or if you just want to talk to someone about it as part of your decision making process so that you feel comfortable, we are very happy to do that for you - just call us at our number listed below my friends, and we'll go over all of that with you in appropriate detail.
Thanks ever so much for your understanding on this,
First - Those who want any info other than the *volumes* of info I have spent many hours typing painstakingly for everyone here and already posted - and are all readily available by using the SEARCH engine here - you will need to please call us. The reality is I can't type out the same thing 10,000 times, that is what the SEARCH engine is provided to you here for, so that you can look up anything that has ever been posted, any time, 24 hrs a day, & thanks for your understanding on that.
Briefly.......
The bottom line is, yes, of course we take into consideration anything that is on the CPW's when we tune the vehicle - absolutely, that is precisely why we ask you all of that detailed info, so we can take that into consideration. But what some apparently do not understand is that there is no "magic wand" that can be waved to make each and every individual vehicle automatically & perfectly spot-on with no data - heck, they aren't like that when bone stock, so they certainly can't be like that when custom tuned.
Remember - this is CUSTOM tuning, not some silly guesswork off-the-shelf crap that leaves these trucks running way too lean and making nowhere near the power they should make, etc. As everyone who has ordered that tuning from us already knows by reading the documentation they received from us in the same email that contained their custom programming worksheets, and again in the additional docs they get once they actually receive their tuning, datalogging is the key to getting any vehicle dialed in spot-on. And it's very easy to do with our docs, as they are written to take the first-timer thru this very smoothly with no mistakes.
Now - can you safely drive your vehicle once you first get our tuning BEFORE you datalog? Yes, you sure can in most cases - meaning, if you have a 2003 or earlier F-150, yes, and if you have a 2004 or newer 5.4 3V truck, the ones that are most sensitive to air intake tract changes, yes, you can still do that as long as you use a properly installed Air Force One or Airaid brand intake kit - for any other intake kits we will no make any such assurance, you;re going to have to datalog right away on the rest of the brands of intake kits. Those are the only 2 intake kits we approve of on the 5.4 3V F-150's, as they gain the most power and have the best design in terms of A/F ratio control while still making nice power gains, so that is why we mention those specific brands of intake kits for the 5.4 3V F-150's, just to be clear.
But it's NOT going to be fully optimal until you datalog & get us that info.
Let me explain something - See, our custom tuning package is designed to give you the same result as if you brought your vehicle here to us and we have it on the dyno and are tuning it on the dyno - we can do that very same thing without ever seeing the vehicle, and that is by doing the simple & easy datalogging via our thorough and easy to follow instructions.
So yes, the baseline tuning we provide is safe to drive on, but it's not finished, it's not fully finalized (in our opinion) until the *data* is in and we can verify exactly how each individual vehicle is running. That kind of precision is why the majority of people who have their F-150's tuned come to us - for our expertise, as nobody else has the kind of info, experience & skills on these trucks that we do.
So while yes, it is true that you can take your tuning once it arrives from us and drive the vehicle and never datalog it and it will be basically safe to drive in most (but not 100%) cases - we really like to dial in each vehicle spot-on - but then we're tuners, so we're born data hounds.
I know this can be a bit confusing, perhaps even nerve-wracking - so just so we're clear, in these 2004 & up vehicles with the newer ETC systems (as it seems to be those who have the most questions on this in this thread), yes, we can tune the vehicle and it will be safe to drive without you datalogging it - but it's not going to be all that it could be until you datalog & we make those fine adjustments that make the difference between a baseline custom tune and a fully & properly completed custom tune, that's all.
I hope that eases your minds so you don't have to worry.
Read the boards, use the SEARCH filters here for any info you want on this (as it's all been gone over many times), and read your Troyer Performance documentation. And if you still have questions after all of that, or if you just want to talk to someone about it as part of your decision making process so that you feel comfortable, we are very happy to do that for you - just call us at our number listed below my friends, and we'll go over all of that with you in appropriate detail.
Thanks ever so much for your understanding on this,
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OK, you said all that which I understand and had known from reading and searching etc, but...Data logging can only be done with a PC running windows XP or newer? The work sheets state you need a PC, and past posts state the same. My issue is that I run a Mac at home not a PC. At work I run a PC, but that is strictly off limits for any personal use such as data logging. So it appears that my only option for data logging is to befriend someone running a PC then? As you know some apps run only on PC's, some on both, and some are stated that they work on PC's but also work on Macs, etc. So the only question I had was if you know if the data logging will work on a Mac?