I have no doubt that Troyer tuning gets more hp, but I don't understand why Ford leaves hp on the table to start with. I've been told that Ford programs for a compromise. If this is true, then what do you give up when you use a Troyer 87 performance tune? I don't understand why Ford wouldn't get the extra hp from the factory and be able to advertise 315 or 325 hp?

Jon

 

Hi & Welcome.

I suspect you are about to be bombarded by responses that suggest you become familiar with that little Search button.

This has SO been discussed at length here.

Allow me to be the first. Every Noob needs to learn how to use the Search feature You can even Search on how to use Search

Cheers
Grog

 

Well Jon, I asked basically this same question weeks ago. To give you a run down, this is what I got from it. Ford *dummies down* their trucks so that they can sell more. The idea is that there are a lot of folks that buy trucks not with the intention of using them as trucks. i.e. soccer moms, white collar guys, and the like. The you got the guys that like the speed stuff. Smoking tires. I guess that's were the Harleys and Lightinings come in. Though I guess you could consider them *entry level* from the factory. That's where all these different performance mods come into play.

I don't really buy into that. But, looking around this forum, you can see that a lot of folks are running trucks for, what I call, show. Fancy shoes, covers, sound systems, and other. My gosh, just take a gander around the Gen. care and detailing forum. Waxing door jambs? Polishing antennas?

I guess I'm old school. I use a truck for a truck. Pulling trailers, hauling equipment, carrying tools, fishing, hunting. You know, truck stuff. And that's why I can't buy into the fact that a company would dummy down a vehicle used to perform such. Geez, does that many soccer moms buy Super Dutys? And why would a F150 be any different? I don't know. I guess I'm still as ignorant as I ever was.

I hope you get a better answer than what I just gave. And if you do, maybe you can dumb it down in such a way that this old country boy will be able to understand.

Good luck,

Joey

 

I have done searches and have done a lot of reading and haven't found a suitable answer to the question, so I thought I would give it a try.

I agee with jward that the "dummying" it down doesn't make sense.

I don't think Ford is going to leave the hp on the table without a reason - that just doesn't make sense. I suspect that gaining the extra hp from a tune affects one of the components in their compromise - such as smoothness (driveability), longevity, mileage, etc.. I was just hoping someone knew the real answer. I'm just curious what I'm giving up to gain the performance.

Jon

 

Hi JonCr;

Proper Custom tuning negatively affects none of those things you mentioned - in fact the opposite is true. Having experienced 'stock' versus 'Custom' tuning first hand, as a lot of other folks here have - I can attest to that as fact.

Do not be dismayed - the answer IS out there...

Cheers
Grog

 

Hi Jon,

You're not giving up anything with our Troyer Performance custom tuning, as can clearly be seen from reading the years of posts from our customers right here. We have specialized in the tuning of this platform for many years - and the basic answers are already right here on this board and available via SEARCH.

All automakers have to make compromises, and a one tune fits all approach never works as well as what we do, which is provide *multiple* programs so that the owner has all the capabilities of stock and far more.

The automakers also dummy these vehicles down in *many* ways and aspects to make them more appealing to women, who buy just over half of all new vehicles sold in the US, and and in the process the automakers compromise numerous aspects of performance and certain aspects of powertrain service life as well.

Virtually every vehicle made can have it's performance significantly increased without causing them to break down sooner - such as these trucks, which for example, have very high rates of over-engineering in numerous areas. Which is why supercharger manufacturers offer replacement powertrain warranties for example, as they know that properly designed, installed and tuned, power gains well in excess of 100 Hp can be had without automatically ruining the vehicle's durability - from there it's up to the driver to treat the vehicle responsibly.

There are any number of additional minor aspects, but that covers the main basics - all of this has in fact been gone over many times before here, and thus proper use of the SEARCH feature's search filters will yield plenty of posts on this exact topic - for example, I have personally gone over this *many* times here before, probably over a hundred times - so many that I do not repeat everything every time the next person comes along to ask the exact same thing - that is why the SEARCH feature has been provided by the Webmaster here, so that with the proper input, it can pull up anything ever discussed here. That is why other respondents continue to recommend using the search feature some more.

So I would suggest spending some more time learning to work with the SEARCH feature's filters so you can better access the info you want, and reading those older posts, as everything is in fact here - but the basic answers have already been provided in this post.

I hope that helps your understanding a bit better, & enjoy your Labor Day weekend, Jon - take care!

 

There is one other thing to consider. If Ford "advertised" 325 etc. HP then the government would put a higher tax on them for being a "gas guzzler". The govt. as far as I know uses HP ratings (not MPG ratings) to determine what gets the GG tax. Also, advertising those HP numbers would cause insurance companies to raise rates on these vehicles which in turn would cause some people to not buy them.

 

Automobile manufactureres have to make a vehicle that will run in every conceivable climate, altitude, fuel quality and driving style. they must start everytime at -50 and 110 degrees and every temp in between. they have to run smoothly on 105 octane race fuel and 87 octane trash gas. they must pull 9000 lbs loads up mountains while passing a slow moving tractor trailer. while doing all this they must idle smoothly and quietly. on top of all this they must meet emmitions requirements now and in the future when parts are worn.

No manufacturer would sell a vehicle whose motor was at the very limit of its capability. there is a lot of money in the aftermarket. somthing is always left on the table. Ford is great about leaving some "easy" power on the table.

knowing that I will use only 93 octane fuel and that I wont pull a load with my truck allows me to add timing, thus HP.

Tuning also eases or disables the torque management system on our trucks, this is a biggy as we are not even able to use the power we already have.

I hope this helps. just my .02

 

I know what you mean... I had to 'dummy down' to get my wife to marry me. That's my story & I'm stickin' to it!

 

Hey there bamorris,

Better hope your wife doesn't see that post!

With regard to the gas guzzler tax, that is based strictly on the MPG of the vehicle, not the HP rating - now that is just here in America, primarily., Virtually all other places in the world DO use the HP rating for that basis, which is why in Japan, for years & years no automaker rates their vehicle over something like 252 or 262 HP, even when they make 350+ HP, for this very reason,. Having grown up in Europe, I can tell you that you;re absolutely right Ogre1, they DO place a tax based on the HP rating, or at least, did when I lived there. Here in America however, it's based on the MPG.

For example, as I understand it, the 2003 Ford Mustang Cobra was put into the gas guzzler category, but then Ford made some changes and got it out of that category for the 2004 model year - even though it had the exact same HP rating.

So yes, it's HP for most countries, but here in America it's the MPG numbers, as I understand it - and we're among the minority in that regard, almost everyone else does it by HP ratings just as you mentioned, Ogre1.