Can anyone explain this whole PCM 'learning' stuff?
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From: Motor City
Can anyone explain this whole PCM 'learning' stuff?
Ok... I've been driving around with the 1714 91+ Tune installed for many months now. I've noticed I can't bust the rear tires loose anymore, and my MPGs have been slowly increasing to an all-time high of 15.7mpg this last tank. I had set the tune to use the stock shift pressure for nice daily driving easy shifting.
Fast forward to the weekend. Got a cool little G-timer from Escort. Did some 0-60 times, best was 8.75 (BTW, it's a 04' 5.4L 4x4 Lariat Screw). I think this isn't too shabby... but yet not great either. I figured I was in the low to mid 8s. I figured I'd re-tune and up the shift pressure a tad. Plus I was really wondering how much the PCM learning crap had effected the performance. So with a fresh tune I set out for a little drive and another 0-60 run. My best time this time was a 9.3... the time for a bone-stock truck. On the flip side, I am once again able to bust my tires loose at will... WTF?!
So as the PCM 'learns', it takes away my snap off the line and gives me more MPG and HP along the way... at least that's all I can conclude. I want both. How the hell do you 'teach' these trucks?! Can it be done? Can the trucks be tuned to JUST FRIGGIN' perform and NOT LEARN anything? Stupid computers...
Fast forward to the weekend. Got a cool little G-timer from Escort. Did some 0-60 times, best was 8.75 (BTW, it's a 04' 5.4L 4x4 Lariat Screw). I think this isn't too shabby... but yet not great either. I figured I was in the low to mid 8s. I figured I'd re-tune and up the shift pressure a tad. Plus I was really wondering how much the PCM learning crap had effected the performance. So with a fresh tune I set out for a little drive and another 0-60 run. My best time this time was a 9.3... the time for a bone-stock truck. On the flip side, I am once again able to bust my tires loose at will... WTF?!
So as the PCM 'learns', it takes away my snap off the line and gives me more MPG and HP along the way... at least that's all I can conclude. I want both. How the hell do you 'teach' these trucks?! Can it be done? Can the trucks be tuned to JUST FRIGGIN' perform and NOT LEARN anything? Stupid computers...
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No doubt! Iwould like to know what the commanded A/f ratio is and how the computer adapts to it. After removing my muffler, my tip has turned black. I used to have a EEC-IV book about how that whole system worked and it was a big help.
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From: Sunny FL
As far as tinkering with the shift firmness supposedly the Superchips settings are the best with the exception of one change Mike recommends to the 2*3 shift
Do a narrow search on “adaptive strategy” Mike has mega info already posted; here’s some
Adaptive strategy can reduce power with conservative driving, but not by a lot - so just drive the vehicle normally. This is why some guys, when they take their daily driver to the drag strip, will disconnect the battery for a few minutes to "clear" out the PCM & adaptive strategy adjustments, as they will sometimes pick up a couple of tenths of ET that way - but the same thing will happen just by making a few full-throttle runs. It comes back as quickly as it goes away, and we're only talking about a few percent power-wise, so it's not a big deal - nothing to worry about.
the "power is going to be there" no matter how you drive the vehicle, but it may be say, 97% instead of 100% if it's driven gently most of the time - that comes right back with a few full-throttle bursts over a couple of drive cycles, so it's really nothing to be concerned about.
Hope this helps D
Do a narrow search on “adaptive strategy” Mike has mega info already posted; here’s some
Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
Adaptive strategy can reduce power with conservative driving, but not by a lot - so just drive the vehicle normally. This is why some guys, when they take their daily driver to the drag strip, will disconnect the battery for a few minutes to "clear" out the PCM & adaptive strategy adjustments, as they will sometimes pick up a couple of tenths of ET that way - but the same thing will happen just by making a few full-throttle runs. It comes back as quickly as it goes away, and we're only talking about a few percent power-wise, so it's not a big deal - nothing to worry about.
the "power is going to be there" no matter how you drive the vehicle, but it may be say, 97% instead of 100% if it's driven gently most of the time - that comes right back with a few full-throttle bursts over a couple of drive cycles, so it's really nothing to be concerned about.
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From: Motor City
Originally Posted by jpdadeo
As far as tinkering with the shift firmness supposedly the Superchips settings are the best with the exception of one change Mike recommends to the 2*3 shift
Off to use the search button to attempt to reveal more secrets...
.... and alrighty then... found this snippet from earlier in the year..
In some vehicles, you don't seem to get any "relearn symptoms" that are noticeable to the driver at all - while in other vehicles, the relearn seems more obvious - there is certainly a fair amount of variance there. One thing that is ALWAYS in effect is the fact that if you change tunes at the drag strip, for example, it will take oh, anywhere form 4 to maybe a half-dozen or more repeated passes down the 1/4 mile to get the full 100% performance difference between the two different tunes each time you change programs - whether you're reflashing the PCM or using a multi-program chip and just turning the **** to effect an instant program change. So yes, that does generally affect absolute *peak* power and WOT performance. But whether you will actually *notice* anything in terms of general seat-of-the-pants response or symptom-wise (like a bit of fluctuation in idle speed & quality, or in auto tranny shift firmness etc.), really varies from one vehicle to the next, even with 2 vehicles that are identical & have the same computer code.
So the new questions are: A. Can the changes the adaptive crap makes be anaylized and put into a tune while retaining the early on low-end grunt? It'd be great to gain that HP is creates while keeping it's early-on pep.
B. If A. is possible, then can the AS stuff be disabled?
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From: Sunny FL
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Thankfully one of my original questions cannot be answered with a search... well, I haven't found the answer yet!
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Gonna be a Bad day. Must be the moon. Some strange forces are at work here. When Dzervit has to be told to use the search, you know at the very least, the magnetic fields are reversed. 
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Are you kidding?
"Use the search", "learn to use the search", "bone up on your search skills" are the pet answers for these folks.
But, if D would smooch on a little ***, he'd a get a more to the point answer.
What you have to say, D, is, this 1714 is BEST piece of equipment I've bought for my truck. It's the BEST bang for your buck. Those guys are the smartest tuners that live. And well they should be, as they've been tuning vehicles since horses went out of style.
Then ask your question.
"Use the search", "learn to use the search", "bone up on your search skills" are the pet answers for these folks.
But, if D would smooch on a little ***, he'd a get a more to the point answer.
What you have to say, D, is, this 1714 is BEST piece of equipment I've bought for my truck. It's the BEST bang for your buck. Those guys are the smartest tuners that live. And well they should be, as they've been tuning vehicles since horses went out of style.
Then ask your question.
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From: Motor City
I am king of the "use the search" phrase. However, searching didn't answer exactly what I wanted. JP's comment helped a little, but still cannot answer the secondary questions.
The 1714 is nice, but has it's issues (at least mine does). Screw the **** kissing.
The 1714 is nice, but has it's issues (at least mine does). Screw the **** kissing.
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"However, searching didn't answer exactly what I wanted."
You're joking, of course.
Don't you know that EVERY question that can, could, has, and should be asked about tuning and chips is already in the archives?
They go years and years back. I even found a thread on how to tune the Vietnam era tanks. And I don't think they were Fords.
If you're the King, then watch for Brutus. Just keep that in mind.
You're joking, of course.
Don't you know that EVERY question that can, could, has, and should be asked about tuning and chips is already in the archives?
They go years and years back. I even found a thread on how to tune the Vietnam era tanks. And I don't think they were Fords.
If you're the King, then watch for Brutus. Just keep that in mind.
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Hi. Neanderthal here again....
What I've gleaned through my searches ( still good advice - either forums or Google/web, etc), is that activity such as adaptive learning is a 'core' function embedded in what passes for an operating system in the PCM.
Even if reverse-engineering allowed the ability to 'disable' it - it's probably copyrighted and protected for all I know - why would you want to?
This is a key feature of the PCM that allows the vehicle to adapt to changing conditions - generally a good thing for most folks, most of the time, raw performance notwithstanding. I believe one of the drivers for this type of control was to allow some method to compensate ( within reason) for tolerances, aging, wear, etc on various drivetrain components, sensors, etc, within a specified range or operation - codes set when those ranges are exceeded of course...
The post describing the adaptive learning variants was interesting too - even with identical PCM codes. A lot more going on here than meets the eye...
So Dzervit - I don't think it can be defeated, and since it can't, it's unlikely a tune will remain static or 'fresh' like you want. Good concept, though.
If your 1714 is overly harsh at default settings - I guess you've tried to adjust it within the range provided - any improvement? Because, if not, guess what the next advice is gonna be ?
In my case, the improvement over stock remains quite dramatic, even across seasons, gas variations, etc.
Yeah - looks like some strip time should be part of your 'driving cycle'
Jward - ease up buddy - we are all trying to help. I share your pain - I'm about the crappiest Searcher I've ever met, but I am damned persistent
... time to Search for a cold one ....
Cheers!
Grog
What I've gleaned through my searches ( still good advice - either forums or Google/web, etc), is that activity such as adaptive learning is a 'core' function embedded in what passes for an operating system in the PCM.
Even if reverse-engineering allowed the ability to 'disable' it - it's probably copyrighted and protected for all I know - why would you want to?
This is a key feature of the PCM that allows the vehicle to adapt to changing conditions - generally a good thing for most folks, most of the time, raw performance notwithstanding. I believe one of the drivers for this type of control was to allow some method to compensate ( within reason) for tolerances, aging, wear, etc on various drivetrain components, sensors, etc, within a specified range or operation - codes set when those ranges are exceeded of course...
The post describing the adaptive learning variants was interesting too - even with identical PCM codes. A lot more going on here than meets the eye...
So Dzervit - I don't think it can be defeated, and since it can't, it's unlikely a tune will remain static or 'fresh' like you want. Good concept, though.
If your 1714 is overly harsh at default settings - I guess you've tried to adjust it within the range provided - any improvement? Because, if not, guess what the next advice is gonna be ?
In my case, the improvement over stock remains quite dramatic, even across seasons, gas variations, etc.
Yeah - looks like some strip time should be part of your 'driving cycle'
Jward - ease up buddy - we are all trying to help. I share your pain - I'm about the crappiest Searcher I've ever met, but I am damned persistent
... time to Search for a cold one ....
Cheers!
Grog
Last edited by MGDfan; Aug 16, 2005 at 12:59 PM.