I did a search and found a little bit of info. I'm wondering what programmer (and if it's worth it) is best for towing on 87 octane fuel. I only get about 10mpg towing so mid or premium would kill me. What can I realistically gain on 87 octane. 2000 5.4 4x4 7700package.

 

First off, if mileage is important to you, you may want to look into what a cold air intake will do for you. I have heard that my 2004 5.4L gains more from a cold air intake than some of the older models. Never the less, I got perhaps 1.5 mpg and a decent increase in power by replacing my stock intake with a cold air. The power per dollar invested may not be quite as much for an intake system as it is for a custom program, but the payback in fuel economy makes it a no brainer in my book.

I'm towing around 8,500 lbs with perhaps 600-800 lbs in the truck and getting 9 to 10 mpg towing. Before break in and mods, my truck was getting 6 to 8 miles per gallon towing.

Regarding programming gains, I just installed and tried out a Troyer 87 octane towing tune. I haven't towed with it yet, but the power and shift point gains are dramatic just driving around town.

I'll be towing my 5th wheel from Wisconsin to North Carolina and back in mid September and will post my impressions of the change when I get back. If you are still shopping you can check back then.

 

The XCal2 is the most versatile programmer and with Troyer Performance custom tunes installed, it is considered by many to be the #1 “bang for the buck” mod without exception.

SCT’s XCalibrator 2 loaded with a set of 3 Troyer Performance custom programs, available for any OBD-II FoMoCo vehicle 1996-2005

 

I can agree with your statement only if you qualify it as the "best bang for the buck" power modification... possibly with an additional qualifier restricting it to late model F150's.

When you start talking about other deliverables besides power in late model F150's that statement doesn't ring true.

I haven't heard a single person say it's the best mpg mod or the mod that pays for itself in the shortest period of time.

Be precise.

As for me, I always do mods that improve both mileage and horsepower first. To me, they are the no brainers because they not only deliver power but pay for themselves over the life of the vehicle. Mods that deliver primarily power, even if the deliver more power per $ spent come second.

Different strokes.

 

Les, (I presume that is the name)

I've had a "tow/performance" tune for over a year now and have done a fair bit of towing with my 2004 F-150. Towing before the tune was getting an average of about 12 to 13 mpg. That was with 87 octane fuel. Performance was "OK' but it lacked a bit in my opinion. I went with an early 91 octane tow/perf tune before the Xcalibrator came on the scene. 91 was much cheaper than it is now by the way. I ran last fall on a trip of about 3700 miles towing in desert and mountains. My overall average was 15/16 mpg. Now I am not towing the kind of weight that you have mentioned but only about 6,000 #.

Now as far as I was concerned that was a good improvement as the performance was Sooooooooo much better and mileage was acceptable. Now this comming fall I will do the same trip and will switch to my 87 octane tow/perf tune and make a comparison on both mileage and performance. Lets see what we get. So far the cost of fuel for me at least has been offset by how good my F-150 runs and how much pleasure I get from driving it. I am also sure a lot of my results are dependent on the other "hard" mods I have done.

My Xcalibrator Troyer tunes include 87 tow/perf, 91 tow/perf and 91 performance. I would love to see 93 octane here in the west but no luck it seems.

Some mods will deliver some really good feelings but will never pay for themselves. I feel the mods I have made so far have cost me more than they can deliver on return of dollars but I get a great return on feeling when I drive.

As they say "Your results may vary".

 

John,

I wouldn't get hung up about the cost of premium fuel. Now that the cost has gone well over $2/gal it's actually easier to justify the added expense of premium gas. Premium gas always seems to be 20 cents higher than regular where I get gas. When gas was $1/gal it cost %20 more to buy premium but at $2/gal the additional cost is only %10. As the cost increases the precentage difference between the types of fuel decreases even more. I did some rough calculations and by my estimate if you increase your mileage by 1 mpg from 10 to 11 you'll actually save money using premium gas at the current prices. Of course you also get the added benefit of more power.

 

Anytime you increase hp, you’ll get better fuel economy under the same driving conditions. No mod is going to pay for itself in gas savings. Mike’s custom tuning via the XCal2 is the #1 best mod IMO and it gave my truck the boost it desperately needed

 

Sorry, but that statement doesn't pass muster.

Think about it.

I'm going to track gas mileage with the xcal2 and compare it to before installation, but there is a problem. The 15hp or so that the intake produced is so modest that you soon don't notice it. Your driving habits go back to more or less where they were before the mod. With the xcal2 the power and driveability increase is significant enough that it could easily change your driving habits indefinitely. Put more simply, you are more likely to develop lead foot habits from the xcal2 than you are from an intake mod IMHO.

Regardless, I am going to try, for a time, to drive with the xcal2 just like I did without and record some mileage data, both towing and regular. If successful, I will post the results here.

As you know, however, there is a catch. Unlike the intake mod, the xcal2 requires higher cost gasoline. By my calculations your mileage would have to increase by 1.3 mpg overall, just to cover the higher cost fuel.

It's simply not apples to apples. If you want to save money and get a little performance increase, buy an intake. If you want the most bang for you buck in horse power and torque, then definitely get the xcal2.

Enjoy.

 

For the first one you are dead on, my foot is so heavy now it drags behind me when I walk around.


For Octane you are however ignoring the fact that with 3 tunes, most people do get at least one 87 Octane tune (I have an 87perf and an 87tow). So no it does NOT require higher priced gas. Only if you want the absolute best performance would you go to the 93+ octane tunes, and I've seen plenty of people that only run the 87's because of the cost.

 

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I don't have the ExCal but do have the 1715 Tuner. I offset the price of 93 octane buy using Shell's credit card. There is no anual fee as long as you make 9 gas purchases in a year (no problem there) and no other fees as long as you pay it off monthy. You get 5% off a gallon which is approx. 12cents per gallon. This puts you cost per gallon down to the mid grade gas. Iv'e been using it for 3 years now.

 

Hi guys;

Allow this poor dumb Neanderthal to jump in (those who have seen some of my posts will understand ...

While some of my fave mods are the reduction of parasitic losses ( e-fans, underdrives, synthetic lubes everywhere, etc), the best so far has been custom tuning.

I tend to agree with JP on this one... and I base it in part on the following...

I refer you to this post:

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...highlight=bsfc

... it's one of the results of a Search on BSFC - see Mike's post in this thread and he discusses it in some detail.

So following the logic, as JP suggests, for a give load ( e.g. towing) and driving conditions (where fuel quality, weather, lead foot calibration, etc are the same), the premium tune will likely result in less fuel consumption, and it can be by an appreciable amount.

I'll leave the cost recovery issue alone - up here in Mooseland, the price of gas and the regular/premium delta defies all logic !!! It also varies so wildly any given day that calculations are difficult at best... I've basically given up doing it in any formal fashion.

Suffice it to say, I bought all my perf mods to date with performance, not cost effectiveness as my personal primary consideration. If I tread lightly, sure I can get better mileage, but that's just icing on the cake. Truck is just a lot of fun to drive.

I'm sorry to say I'm a leadfoot too

Cheers guys, and thanks for an interesting thread!

Vic

 

This coming from the one who posted:

Any time you increase hp you will get better fuel economy under the same driving conditions.

Have you taken a moment to think about it, or are you just shooting from the hip.

I don't need to do a search on the above statement.

Enjoy.

 

I don't disagree with this. It actually doesn't change my point. I was just trying to keep the example simple. There may be an application (i.e. truck/engine/model year) where an 87 performance or towing tune delivers better gas mileage improvement and more power than an intake. In my limited personal experiene, I've never run across it. Nor have I seen any data posted by anyone indicating that this may be the case.

And before you go there, I agree that a Troyer 87 towing tune delivers more power, or at very least acceleration improvement than an intake on my truck.

Frankly, I don't expect to see 1.5 mpg improvement out of the 87 towing tune. Nor do I expect to see a 2.8 mpg improvement out of the 93 performance tune, which would put it, more or less, on a economy equivalent to an air intake upgrade on my 2004 5.4L 3V. I'll be delighted if I am pleasantly suprised.

I'm going to retire from this discussion now. Apparently the only answer that is acceptable in this discussion group is that programming is the number 1 mod regardless of what you are trying to accomplish or what vehicle you are working on. I won't buy that on faith and can't support it based on personal experience.

Enjoy.

 

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