Can't find this thread so I'll ask. In process of ordering X-Cal from Troyer and working the tunes with Crystal. What I really need is one more tune on the X-C, but......

How does the 91 and/or 93 Oct towing tune compare to the same octane perf tune when NOT towing?

I'm considering an 87 perf, an 87 tow, and 91 tow (since there is so litle difference between 91 and 93; 26 hp vs 28hp per the listing?) and the 91 will let me tow out west if / when I get the chance. Hoping the 91 tow will give me NON Towing performance in the range of a 91 or 93 performance tune when NOT towing.

Objective is better towing performance and overall "noticable" performance improvement, but I'm not racing or spending much time at WOT.
Your thoughts / recommendations please. Need to complete the order Monday.

BTW. Sticker info shows 3.55 LS rear. H9 is the code. That match? Thanks, Ed

 

I just ordered mine and got the 87 perf, 91 tow and 91 perf. I figured that if I really wanted to tow with 87 octane, the stock program is always there...Kevin

 

I just got mine on Thursday and it came with 87 perf, 93 perf, and 93 tow. This came recommended from Mike Troyer, and since he's the smartest person when it comes to performance tuning and the Ford vehicle, I have a sence to trust him. Talk to Mike, he'll help ya. Hope this helps.

BTW, it's to bad that it's harder to get 93 octane in the West.

 

Thanks guys, Appreciate the input and Mike is certainly "The Man". Still would like to know how the tow settings compare with the performance settings if anyone has experience with them.

 

I run the tow setting all the time.

read the post
"9100 vs Dodge Dakota 5.9" and see what you think.

I like it, its aggressive, works for towing and you can feel the difference over stock. performance setting adds a little more HP and a firmer shift over the tow setting for me, but I have done most of the mods, my shifts are FIRM now. Both will spin the tires easy.

Randy

 

Hi. Ranger;

You thinking what I'm thinking?

I've had this question in my head for some time now...

Does the TOW tune offer any optimizations for low/midrange torque ( at the expense of some WOT power ), in addition to other 'towing-specific' tweaks: e.g; shifting characteristics, and to keep the EGT's 'safe' in a rated load towing situation?

Might this be more optimal in a daily-driver as opposed to a '*****-to-the-wall' max perf tune ( no tow )?


Cheers!

 

Hi Ranger Ed, MGDFan, etc.,

The primary difference in our custom "towing-compatible" tunes versus our custom "performance" (non-towing) tunes is the A/F ratios - with regard to what MGDFan asked, in terms of lower rpm/part-throttle tweaks that would help towing over changes we might make differently in our "performance" (non-towing) tunes, there's isn't a lot of difference there - some, but not a lot.

Even in our non-towing tunes, these are still very heavy vehicles and thus need higher upshift points even at very light throttle & very low speeds for proper driveability, and emergency powertrain response scenarios (collision avoidance), etc. - so we don't do that *only* in a towing tune, we do that also in performance tunes, too - so it's something that is appropriate for *both*. Also, remember that as you increase load, the part-throttle upshift points are going to *automatically* go higher, in normal response to the increased engine load from towing.

So the single biggest difference is to use a richer A/F ratio in towing-compatible tunes as is appropriate to keep the EGT's down with the vastly increased engine loading that towing causes - along with some other changes that are appropriate for towing. Now because of the richer A/F's, the towing-compatible tune will not make quite as much power as the non-towing performance tune - for example, in a 1999-2003 260 HP PI 5.4 2V, it can be about 8-10 HP less at the rear wheels in our towing-compatible premium gas tunes versus our maximum performance premium gas tunes.

Bottom line - you can safely use our towing-compatible tunes all the time, just as Randy (watsonr) tends to do, and that won't hurt a thing - as you can see from some of Randy's posts, his towing-compatible tune makes plenty of power.

Have fun,

 

Mike and Randy,

Thanks for the responses. Excellent explanation and very cool post Randy, under the 9100-- vs Dakota. Makes me even more anxious for my new gear from Mike. I finalized order yesterday and now it's just a matter of patience (yea right!). Hope the AF1 is as easy to instal as the posts lead one to believe.

MGD Fan, appreciate both your psots and everyone's opinions and input about their tunes.

Mike has worked some more of his magic with a set-up to allow me some variance with the high octane fuels between east and west coast. I'll post and let you know how it all turns out.

Ed

 

I have Mike's Stage 1.5 ( Stake 1 with custome tune ) kit on my 5.4L 2000 ext cab truck.

As per Toryer's recomendation, I got the 93 Performance, 93 Tow and 87 Tow....

If I go out west ( or get some bad gas ), i'll just use the 87 tow tune...

I have only loaded the 93 tow tune. It significantly improved the preformance and shift points. It had to shave nearly a second off the 0-60 and it will now spin the tire on a full power take off...

I still think that shift point of 2-3 is a little high. That might be when the max performance tune would be an advantage. The truck seems to quit pulling very strong for a second right before this shift.... ( A 50 rpm lower shift point might be in order on the tow tune here )

I have not loaded the preformance tune yet, because I might like it too much and I still have to tow my boats...

I have kept good milage records and to my suprize, I am getting about 1-2mpg better milage which offset that extra gas costs. Of course the 20 cents extra only amounts to about $200.00 extra per year to start with...

 

Here's an example of a truck that gets 15 mpg,
and a 1.5 mpg increase with a chip running 93 octane:

87 octane, 15 mpg, $1.25 gallon - 8.3333 cents fuel costs per mile
93 octane, 16.5 mpg, $1.45 gallon - 9.0625 cents fuel costs per mile

87 octane, 15 mpg, $1.50 gallon - 10 cents fuel costs per mile
93 octane, 16.5 mpg, $1.70 gallon - 10.3030 cents fuel costs per mile

87 octane, 15 mpg, $1.70 gallon - 11.3333 cents fuel costs per mile
93 octane, 16.5 mpg, $1.90 gallon - 11.5151 cents fuel costs per mile

87 octane, 15 mpg, $1.90 gallon - 12.6666 cents fuel costs per mile
93 octane, 16.5 mpg, $2.10 gallon - 12.7272 cents fuel costs per mile

87 octane, 15 mpg, $2.10 gallon - 14 cents fuel costs per mile
93 octane, 16.5 mpg, $2.30 gallon - 13.939393 cents fuel costs per mile

The higher the gas prices, the more parity you get in the operating fuel costs of the vehicle, plus the bonus of more power. Once the price gets over a certain amount, it costs less to operate with the chip (this is assuming you don't have a lead foot,
which will negate the mileage benefits of more power). The lower your stock mileage, the quicker the pay off.
Guys who get 13-15 stock mileage may spend a lot less money on gas with a premium tune with current prices.

maybe this will help getting over the higher cost of gas.
Randy

 

Hi Randy & SRanger,

Randy's post on the fuel cost analysis is excellent info, we've been telling people this for many years now - Randy's comparisons help to really bring that home & let people see the reality of calculating actual operating costs with our performance tuning on premium fuels.

SRanger - some general FYI info for you with regard to WOT (wide-open throttle) shift points..................

The WOT upshift points do not need to come down in our towing tunes - not unless you want to slow the vehicle's rate of acceleration, that is. Full-throttle shift points are not determined by the seat of the pants feel, that is never the way to set up an automatic transmission vehicle. The way to set up the full-throttle upshift points, whether it's for towing or for "performance," is so that the vehicle accelerates the quickest without abusing powertrain components - not by where it seems to not pull quite as hard via the seat of the pants. What has to be taken into consideration in that regard is the gear ratio spread in the transmission, and what actually achieves attaining velocity at the most rapid rate.

2nd gear is the last gear you have torque multiplication in, and it's critical to achieving velocity to get as much out of it as you reasonably can without pushing components beyond what they can take long-term - otherwise, once it hits 3rd gear you don't gain velocity nearly as well, as because of the fact that you're now 1:1 *and* the aero load due to speed, it noses over when you hit 3rd. In this case, the torque converter is the weakest link, and shouldn't be turned more than 5400-5500 rpm frequently. For example, what will actually deliver the quickest acceleration is a 5600 rpm 1-2, and a 5400 rpm 2-3 - but we don't wind out 1st gear to 5600 rpm because the stock torque converter doesn't like that to be done on a frequent basis, it can start to balloon.

Yes, the power peaks at about 4900-5100 rpm with the truck cams, depending on if you have a low-restriction intake & exhaust or not - you are absolutely right! But if you upshift it at the power peak, or by where it seems to not pull as hard by seat of the pants feel, that reduces the rate of acceleration overall.

The sole reason for being at full-throttle is to gain velocity and traverse distance as *quickly* as possible - and determining the appropriate WOT upshift point is a matter of knowing what the actual torque curve of the motor is, what the gear ratio spread in the transmission is, and testing to see what actually delivers that result of gaining velocity the quickest without abusing the powertrain.

Just in general, that is one of the most common mistakes people make, is trying to guess at performance by the seat of the pants feel - and WOT upshift points is an excellent example of how seat of the pants feel will take you in the *opposite* direction in these vehicles. Never set the WOT shift points by seat of the pants feel - do that actually measuring acceleration times, or speed-to-distance, etc.

So that's the actual scoop - though one last point is, you also have to sometimes be wary of factory electronic tachs, as they can be off when accelerating at full-throttle - that is why we take rpms from a couple of different sources when we do testing like this.

Now all of this being said - if you still want a lowered WOT shifting point in a custom tune, we can certainly make that adjustment for you - I wouldn't recommend that, but it's your vehicle, so that is up to you.

I hope that info helps a bit, & thanks for your post!

 

Thanks again Mike, great info. I emailed Crystal and asked if the "modified" 93 tow tune you are preparing for me (able to also run the 91) is significantly different (less performance, HP and torque) than a pure 93 tune? I think I'll opt for your "pure" 93 tow tune if it does. We can figure the out west travel when the time comes if I'm going to make too big a compromise with your 93/91 special.

Randy, great comparison of fuel economy. I ran the numbers with my milage and annual miles driven average for six years, but at current prices and without computing a mpg differential (since I don't have the chip and AF1 with actual numbers yet).

Without milage, mpg, difference, the cost differential between 87 and 93 computed at about $11.80 per month. This is based on 10,000 or 12,000 miles driven per year (I don't remember which number I used now). Using your figures it is great to save the $$ using 93. Hope my numbers work that way. I'll start runing the 93 tow tune first.

Ed

 

The fuel list is great.... I would not have though the numbers would work out that way...

I figured that you had a reason for the shift points that is why I have not bothered you with it. And yes I guess I am finally guilty of a seat of the pants reaction....

I should have added that the firmer shift is really nice. It will even chirp the tires accelerating hard up a hill... What the heck, all that weight is good for somthing...

I really have enjoyed that Stage one kit. The truck is a lot more fun to drive. It is certianly not as fast as my 05 Mustang GT, but it does seem to suprize a lot more people. I had a great laugh at a guy in a "tuned" honda V6 accord... ( He did not think it was so funny... )

I wish your shop was closer, I'd have you make a few more mods and re-tune.... It is kinda addictive...