Ability of Dealer to tell if you are using a tuner
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From: Detroit Rock City
Ability of Dealer to tell if you are using a tuner
This question has been beaten to death in the past and I think we have come to the conclusion that the dealer can't tell as long as you return it to the stock tune before getting serviced. Well, read the fourth post in this thread https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...hreadid=182637 . Makes you wonder.
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From: Indianapolis, IN
That is an interesting post... I was under the impression that you want to return the PCM to stock incase the dealer reflashes as part of the maintenance performed, and this was due to the Flasher being VIN locked once the tune was installed. I can see where they can tell if a chip was installed by looking at the connector on the PCM and seeing the contacts were cleaned and possibly rub marks from the chip being installed and removed, but not sure how they could tell with a flasher, especially if your restored the stock program before servicing it. Unless the PCM does log the number of times It's been reflashed.
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From: TX
I think you need to take the battery cables off for awhile to erase the computer codes. Dealer busted me when I took my chip out and took my truck in for service. Said there were altered codes detected. I did not take the battery cables off prior to taking it in.
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From: PA
It won't show an "altered" code, however I think it would flash up some codes for the fuel tables being too rich or the O2's being out of whack from the fuel curve. It's just a mattter of putting 2 and 2 together. Resetting the battery will clear the codes however it will set a P1000 code saying it has been reset until it completes a full OBD drive cycle. I'd take it off regardless, we had a guy come in with his Mustang with the chip onboard, didn't tell us, and we reflashed his PCM, unfortunately we also fried his chip in the process. The NGS SERVICEPRO mentions is quite dated and is nothing much more than a simple code scanner . It can pull out the DTC's and monitor the PID data which would be a clue if your chip was still onboard. Most dealerships should be using WDS by now and I do not recall there being anywhere in it to monitor the number of reflashes, just the current calibration of the PCM. It is not general practice, at least at our dealership, to touch the PCM's unless there is a problem or a TSB warranting us to go in a look at things.... Just my 2 cents on all of this.... Now, could somebody please tell me where to find some decent parts for my truck????
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From: Riverside, CA --- USA
My 2 cents...
I have had an origianl Superchips blue chip in my truck since it was new, a 1998 F-150.
I had to take it into the dealership twice afterwards, the first time (Bad MAF) I took out my Superchip and reset the computer by removing the neg from batt. the second time I forgot to reset the computer and got busted by the dealership. They told me my warranty was void due to my altering the stock computer. My warranty was within 3K miles of being over... I found the problem later myself and repaired... so I didnt sweat it!
MAKE SURE YOU RESET THE COMPUTER B-4 GOING TO THE DEALER, & RETURN TO THE STOCK SETTING FIRST IF USING A HAND HELD TUNER!
I had to take it into the dealership twice afterwards, the first time (Bad MAF) I took out my Superchip and reset the computer by removing the neg from batt. the second time I forgot to reset the computer and got busted by the dealership. They told me my warranty was void due to my altering the stock computer. My warranty was within 3K miles of being over... I found the problem later myself and repaired... so I didnt sweat it!
MAKE SURE YOU RESET THE COMPUTER B-4 GOING TO THE DEALER, & RETURN TO THE STOCK SETTING FIRST IF USING A HAND HELD TUNER!
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From: North Huntingdon,Pa.
Re: My 2 cents...
Originally posted by JHL
I have had an origianl Superchips blue chip in my truck since it was new, a 1998 F-150.
I had to take it into the dealership twice afterwards, the first time (Bad MAF) I took out my Superchip and reset the computer by removing the neg from batt. the second time I forgot to reset the computer and got busted by the dealership. They told me my warranty was void due to my altering the stock computer. My warranty was within 3K miles of being over... I found the problem later myself and repaired... so I didnt sweat it!
MAKE SURE YOU RESET THE COMPUTER B-4 GOING TO THE DEALER, & RETURN TO THE STOCK SETTING FIRST IF USING A HAND HELD TUNER!
I have had an origianl Superchips blue chip in my truck since it was new, a 1998 F-150.
I had to take it into the dealership twice afterwards, the first time (Bad MAF) I took out my Superchip and reset the computer by removing the neg from batt. the second time I forgot to reset the computer and got busted by the dealership. They told me my warranty was void due to my altering the stock computer. My warranty was within 3K miles of being over... I found the problem later myself and repaired... so I didnt sweat it!
MAKE SURE YOU RESET THE COMPUTER B-4 GOING TO THE DEALER, & RETURN TO THE STOCK SETTING FIRST IF USING A HAND HELD TUNER!
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From: Riverside, CA --- USA
OCP#11: I wasn't suggesting the chip made the MAF go bad. Sorry if I left that impression.
Actually I had the MAF thing happen with each of my last 3 Fords. They each started howling terribly and the vehicle ran like $#!^ !!!
Dealer's said they sometimes just go bad. Personally I think it was a design flaw, then revision, because the 2nd ones never went bad. In any event... so warranty covered it in each situation, so no worries! On this particular visit with my F-150 I had removed the SC and reset the PC.
The time I got "busted", was when my truck started misisng suddnely on a day off, I removed chip and off to the dealership I went. When I went to pick it up the service manager told me they wouldn't warranty because I had been running altered codes.
That is when I learned the importance of resetting the PC. In the end all was good because my miss was just a loose plug wire... the dealership didnt even look, just hooked it up to diagnostics... saw different codes and apparently stopped looking for the problem!
Happy cruzin!
Last edited by JHL; Jan 25, 2005 at 08:21 PM.
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From: Riverside, CA --- USA
Newt:
I believe you may be wrong there, as I have cured several issues just by resetting my onboard computer.
It is still a computer, and if you remove complete power from a computer... it still has to reboot when powered back up. I even cleared out the leaky gas cap code by resetting the computer before I had my truck smogged last June.
I dont think it was all my imagination... unless they are putting something in the beer here!
I believe you may be wrong there, as I have cured several issues just by resetting my onboard computer.
It is still a computer, and if you remove complete power from a computer... it still has to reboot when powered back up. I even cleared out the leaky gas cap code by resetting the computer before I had my truck smogged last June.
I dont think it was all my imagination... unless they are putting something in the beer here!
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From: Oklahoma
http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=50096
It is a little harder than the dealership would want you to think to void a warranty. The link above may be helpful...Kevin
It is a little harder than the dealership would want you to think to void a warranty. The link above may be helpful...Kevin
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From: Sunny FL
Originally posted by Superchips_Distributor (snip)
In short, nope. Once you remove the Superchip tuning and clear the PCM, you're back on the factory program, and you can drive it in for service. And as you drive the vehicle, previous data is wiped from the recorder, it's constantly being overwritten as you drive, all the time, only storing the last "X" amount. Now if you happen to take the vehicle up to say, 120 mph, they may see, if they're specifically looking for that, that the vehicle has been able to go faster than it's factory top speed limiter, for example, if that was done very recently. But it's not a deal where they can just hook up to the vehicle and see you've been using a chip, it doesn't work like that.
Remember, the Superchip's primarily purpose is to increase power, and power gains are not something that shows up during a diagnostic scan. If someone wanted to spend a good bit of time looking for specific data, such as the highest speed the vehicle has been driven during the last "X" miles for example, and if someone has taken their vehicle well beyond 108 mph (the highest top speed limiter used on any late-model F-150), then they may *surmise* that a chip may have been used, but that takes some specific and deliberate snooping on their part, it's not like they can just plug in and see electronically that a different powertrain program has been used, they'd have to examine specific data streams. Now if you use the traditional Superchip module instead of the newer Superchisp Micro Tuner, if they disassembled the PCM they may be able to detect the conformal coating having been cleaned from the connector, but that's easy to fix with a conformal coating pen, readily available on the Internet.
Most people are using the newer Superchips Micro Tuner, which uploads the program changes via the OBD-II port inside the cabin, so you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the PCM. And once you return to stock, again, you're back to stock, there isn't any of the performance program left in place.
The data recorder is mainly for encan just hook up to the vehicle and see you've been using a chip, it doesn't work like that.
Remember, the Superchip's primarily purpose is to increase power, and power gains are not something that shows up during a diagnostic scan. If someone wanted to spend a good bit of time looking for specific data, such as the highest speed the vehicle has been driven during the last "X" miles for example, and if someone has taken their vehicle well beyond 108 mph (the highest top speed limiter used on any late-model F-150), then they may *surmise* that a chip may have been used, but that takes some specific and deliberate snooping on their part, it's not like they can just plug in and see electronically that a different powertrain program has been used, they'd have to examine specific data streams. Now if you use the traditional Superchip module instead of the newer Superchisp Micro Tuner, if they disassembled the PCM they may be able to detect the conformal coating having been cleaned from the connector, but that's easy to fix with a conformal coating pen, readily available on the Internet.
Most people are using the newer Superchips Micro Tuner, which uploads the program changes via the OBD-II port inside the cabin, so you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the PCM. And once you return to stock, again, you're back to stock, there isn't any of the performance program left in place.
The data recorder is mainly for enhanced diagnostics, particularly with regard to intermittant problems. In the future, it may be used for purposes such as accident reconstruction, etc., to see where the throttle was at point of impact, etc. It can record some basic data for as much as a couple hundred miles of driving, more involved data for shorter periods, and is constantly overwritten as you drive, storing only the last "x" amount.
In short, nope. Once you remove the Superchip tuning and clear the PCM, you're back on the factory program, and you can drive it in for service. And as you drive the vehicle, previous data is wiped from the recorder, it's constantly being overwritten as you drive, all the time, only storing the last "X" amount. Now if you happen to take the vehicle up to say, 120 mph, they may see, if they're specifically looking for that, that the vehicle has been able to go faster than it's factory top speed limiter, for example, if that was done very recently. But it's not a deal where they can just hook up to the vehicle and see you've been using a chip, it doesn't work like that.
Remember, the Superchip's primarily purpose is to increase power, and power gains are not something that shows up during a diagnostic scan. If someone wanted to spend a good bit of time looking for specific data, such as the highest speed the vehicle has been driven during the last "X" miles for example, and if someone has taken their vehicle well beyond 108 mph (the highest top speed limiter used on any late-model F-150), then they may *surmise* that a chip may have been used, but that takes some specific and deliberate snooping on their part, it's not like they can just plug in and see electronically that a different powertrain program has been used, they'd have to examine specific data streams. Now if you use the traditional Superchip module instead of the newer Superchisp Micro Tuner, if they disassembled the PCM they may be able to detect the conformal coating having been cleaned from the connector, but that's easy to fix with a conformal coating pen, readily available on the Internet.
Most people are using the newer Superchips Micro Tuner, which uploads the program changes via the OBD-II port inside the cabin, so you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the PCM. And once you return to stock, again, you're back to stock, there isn't any of the performance program left in place.
The data recorder is mainly for encan just hook up to the vehicle and see you've been using a chip, it doesn't work like that.
Remember, the Superchip's primarily purpose is to increase power, and power gains are not something that shows up during a diagnostic scan. If someone wanted to spend a good bit of time looking for specific data, such as the highest speed the vehicle has been driven during the last "X" miles for example, and if someone has taken their vehicle well beyond 108 mph (the highest top speed limiter used on any late-model F-150), then they may *surmise* that a chip may have been used, but that takes some specific and deliberate snooping on their part, it's not like they can just plug in and see electronically that a different powertrain program has been used, they'd have to examine specific data streams. Now if you use the traditional Superchip module instead of the newer Superchisp Micro Tuner, if they disassembled the PCM they may be able to detect the conformal coating having been cleaned from the connector, but that's easy to fix with a conformal coating pen, readily available on the Internet.
Most people are using the newer Superchips Micro Tuner, which uploads the program changes via the OBD-II port inside the cabin, so you don't have to clean the connector on the back of the PCM. And once you return to stock, again, you're back to stock, there isn't any of the performance program left in place.
The data recorder is mainly for enhanced diagnostics, particularly with regard to intermittant problems. In the future, it may be used for purposes such as accident reconstruction, etc., to see where the throttle was at point of impact, etc. It can record some basic data for as much as a couple hundred miles of driving, more involved data for shorter periods, and is constantly overwritten as you drive, storing only the last "x" amount.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: PA
Originally posted by JHL
Newt:
I believe you may be wrong there, as I have cured several issues just by resetting my onboard computer.
It is still a computer, and if you remove complete power from a computer... it still has to reboot when powered back up. I even cleared out the leaky gas cap code by resetting the computer before I had my truck smogged last June.
I dont think it was all my imagination... unless they are putting something in the beer here!
Newt:
I believe you may be wrong there, as I have cured several issues just by resetting my onboard computer.
It is still a computer, and if you remove complete power from a computer... it still has to reboot when powered back up. I even cleared out the leaky gas cap code by resetting the computer before I had my truck smogged last June.
I dont think it was all my imagination... unless they are putting something in the beer here!
The codes are kept in the KAM (keep alive memory) which is powered from the battery. No battery, no codes....I am going to look today for the "altered" code everyone is refering to. Codes on the new vehicles are based off a 5 digit alphnumeric ID that specify it down to system/subsystem. Does anybody have the actual code value from the dealer they were told?EDIT---jp you must have thrown that in while I was typng this morning, that sums it up really well. I asked at work today and no one has ever heard of an "altered" code. Like it says above a good techniician will be able to tell if they really want to look that hard. The data logger will take a snapshot of the engine parameters only at the time it sets a code in memory. For those of you that do take the battery cables off to reset it before going in for service just remember to drive it for at least 15 minutes or so, all the way up to 55mph so it can complete a full OBD drive cycle which will clear the P1000 code. This could possibly be the code that is tripping some folks up at the shop
Last edited by sb93lx50; Jan 26, 2005 at 07:33 PM.
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From: Easton, Pa.
A good drive cycle must be done to reset all the flags.
It is more involved than just rebooting the PCM and running down the road to the dealer.
Some states that do the emmissions, look at the OBDII and see all flags are not proper without seeing any codes or CEL lamp and will not pass the vehicle at that time because of it.
They usually tell you to come back later after you go out for a good run.
If there is still flags not set proper then a rejection is made and you have to have a dealer look into it.
It is more involved than just rebooting the PCM and running down the road to the dealer.
Some states that do the emmissions, look at the OBDII and see all flags are not proper without seeing any codes or CEL lamp and will not pass the vehicle at that time because of it.
They usually tell you to come back later after you go out for a good run.
If there is still flags not set proper then a rejection is made and you have to have a dealer look into it.