Can you guys/gals post your personal opinion's on the grade of gas (quality) that each station provides, i.e.,

Texaco: Excellent
Amoco: Excellent
Citgo: poor
BP: p*ss poor

Etc?

I don't know much about gas except I'm feeling a little bloated right now, oh gosh excuse me I've got to go,,, now! He He.




[This message has been edited by Big n Red (edited 02-07-2001).]

 

Hi Big & Red,

Though there can always be exceptions, the gasoline brands we prefer, in order, are:

1.) Texaco - they generally have the best quality detergent additives, and were the only oil company to put the same level of additives in all 3 grades before it was mandated by the government. Texaco usually has a good energy content and better mileage in most areas of the country.

2.) Amoco - traditionally an excellent fuel in most areas of the country over the years, they had perhaps the first unleaded premium gas, which we used to call "dry gas" or "white gas", many years ago. Good detergent additives & mileage.

3.) Citgo - now I know this one is a bit controversial, as 7-11 carries Citgo gas and many people assume that 7-11 gas has to be crappy. But Citgo is on both Ford's and BMW's "good gas" lists, and here where we are, we've been using more Citgo than anything else over the past 5-6 years, with *excellent* results, good performance, smooth idle quality, and good mileage. Since the closest Texaco is 8 miles further away out here in the mountains, we use Citgo primarily, even though I prefer Texaco slightly. Citgo is generally the cheapest of these three brands, Texaco, Amoco & Citgo.

Brands to stay away from:

1.) Exxon - clean burning fuel, but noticeably lower energy content than most other "name brands", due to it being "reformulated" year-round everywhere in America.

2.) BP (British Petroleum) - traditionally a fuel with a high sulphur content in comparison to other brands. In our experience, this fuel has given poor results, with idle quality quickly and noticeably deteriorating, less mileage and worse overall performance & throttle response. It will be interesting to see how this works out, given their purchase of Amoco. And in all fairness, BP is right now running a national TV ad campaign, touting that it's been made cleaner and reformulated for better performance, for improved quality, etc. And it may well be improved just recently, but given how many years it's been a poor fuel in comparison to other brands in our direct experience, I probably won't ever use it again in anything other than an emergency.

3.) Any "no-name" brands. While it's true that you can get lucky sometimes and get a good fuel for less money at the no-name places, more often than not you get the cheapest fuel they could buy wholesale, period. People sometimes make the mistake of buying gas based on price alone, and that's generally a mistake. It's important to keep your fuel system & intake valves as clean as possible for best performance & mileage, so using a better quality fuel with great detergent additives is a better move for your vehicle.

Please remember that these are just my personal opinions, these are in no way absolutes, and there are always exceptions! There are indeed a number of other brands that can do an excellent job as well, but without having direct experience with them, we can't say much about them, that doesn't mean other brands can't do a good job.

There are some other tendencies, for example, Shell gasoline has worked well in the East, but not out in California. Chevron I don't personally care for in the East, but out West many people swear by it, especially in Southern California. So it all gets down to your *local* fuel formulations and resultant apparent quality.

The things we look for in a gasoline are:

1.) Mileage - this is the best informal indicator we "laymen" can use to try and determine relative energy content, as the higher energy content fuels will tend to give higher mileage results.

2.) Idle quality - an indicator of detergent additive quality, all else being equal, such as the maint. of the vehicle.

3.) Throttle response & overall performance - self explanatory.

I hope that helps you a bit, Big & Red, & just remember, if you've got a fuel you like that's giving you good results, regardless of the brand, "don't fix it if it isn't broken".

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Hi SCAdien,

I couldn't agree more, while there is some merit to brands, fuel formulations certainly can and do vary quite a bit from one geographic region to the next, and the Fed's air quality monitoring campaign is at the root of all this right now. Each state is divided up into geographic regions, and air quality is monitored year-round. If that region does not meet "attainment" status, meaning their air quality is up to snuff, they are at danger of losing their Federal highway funds if they don't correct it, and the first and easiest thing for those locales to do is to mandate the use of reformulated gasolines; first in winter only, then year-round if that doesn't improve air quality enough.

By the way, I'd love to see that GTO of yours, I love those cars. Is that 455 you transplanted in there a Super Duty 455, per chance? (drool,drool...........)

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

What aboout 76. I use it, and to tell you the truth, the only reason I use it is because they say it is the official fuel of nascar. I never had no problems but i would really like to use the best gas so i think ill try texaco from now on. I would still like to get your guy's input on 76 if possible

 

Outstanding Gents!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mike, Thanks for putting the "Octane" thing to bed quickly.

It always amazes me how many people truly believe that higher octane means more power!

When in reality octane only tells us it ability to resist knock, detonation, Etc.

Yes, higher performance engines (High compression, Radical cams, agressive timing changes, Etc) require higher octane to keep the engine from destroying itself but the octane is not what gives you the power, it is what lets you have the power.

Yeah, my 89 T-Bird SC has that little "Dongle" plug to take out or put back in depending on the octane of fuel being used.

It runs like crap with it out!

 

B777 your kidding right???????????????????????????

 

For me its very easy and down to the basics. I can chirp the tires with Texaco regular. Not being the case with Esso or Shell and forget about the No-Brand names. We don't have 76, Citgo or Exxon, maybe one or two but hard to find. So leave them there.

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My Ride: 1998 F150 4x4 Lariat Supercab Flareside 5.4L in Oxford White/gold, ORP, Tow Package, 3.55 Gears.

Modifications:
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Photos at: http://www.communicomgroup.com/jmtruck

 

Hi Stayblown,

Union 76 has given good results in some areas, and not so good in others, from the feedback that's beed posted here over the past couple of years, so if it's working well for you, that's fine and all that really matters. We don't have any direct experience with that particular brand, and thus can't comment on it from personal experience, sorry.

You're right, NASCAR Winston Cup teams are all supplied with UNOCAL racing gas, but that gas has nothing in common with the gasoline coming out of their pumps that you & I would buy; it doesn't mean their pump fuels are any better than anyone else's automatically, though NASCAR is sure a nice reference!

Interesting bit of trivia, how Union 76 and Phillips 66 got their trade names, or at least, the numeral portion of their brand name I should more correctly say, originally those numbers represented their octane ratings, many years ago. Phillips 66 was 66 octane, and Union 76 was 76 octane. Or so it was explained to me years ago by an old industry insider.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Big-N-Red,

No, I was not kidding.

 

Not only am I not kidding but if you actually do some research on the subject you will find that if you run 93 octane fuel in an engine that is bone stock and designed to run on 87 octane, you are not only throwing away good money, you are and will cause problems for that engine later on down the road.

As explained, octane has nothing to do with POWER.

Power from fuel comes from it's energy content, which Mike has already been kind enought to explain here.
Energy content is expressed in BTU's per measure (Measure being anything from a thimble full to a gallon) or like in my line of work we measure it in pounds.

(In aviation, Jet A is always measured in Pounds)

As Mike also previously posted, Higher octane fuel actually burns slower than low octane fuel(This is how it reduces/eliminates knock and preignition/detonation)If you are burning the fuel slower on an engine that is designed to burn it somewhat faster you are actually wasting raw, unburnt fuel, not alot, but over time and many tanks of gas this will affect your O2 sensors, and Cat.
And, unburnt fuel also starts to leave carbon deposits that collect on the piston top, valve edges and seats, recesses in the heads, Etc.
And of course we all know that carbon deposits on valves and piston tops will cause hard start/sluggish response/erratic idle problems.

And to top that off, a large carbon buildup on valve seats/edges even piston tops can become red hot and cause pre ignition!

Luckily, if an engine is not too bad off you can usually run 87 octane fuel in it for several tanks and add some detergents and burn the carbon out.

Like I said, do some research, the facts are out there, and with the internet they are easily attainable, unlike when I did a mechanical thesis on this about 10 years ago!


Now, as has been discussed in this thread, fuel QUALITY plays a major role in it's ability to deliver it's energy content correctly.
Fuel that is aged, contaminated, non-stabilised, Etc. will have much less energy content than it should due to the fact that it is "Watered down".

As Mike stated, buying quality fuel is the best bet going.

( I personally like to buy fuel from stations that are very busy most all of the time, that way I know their fuel is fresh and has less of a chance of being contaminated and/or aged.)




------------------
Roger In DFW.
Home of the 1999 Stanley Cup Champion ****Dallas Stars****
99 F-150 Sport XL "Bright" Red 4.2L
L Wheels-Michi Pilots. Flowmaster 50. Sport Masters Tonneau

00 X Sport. "Laser" Red 5.4L

Waag Brush Guard. Roush Racing "Dual Oval" Chrome Tip!

 

Hi B777,

Excellent & informative post, thanks very much!

Many of your points are things that most people never had to give thought to in days gone by. But they are indeed important, and I especially appreciated your points with regards to long-term effects of using a fuel of substantially different properties that the vehicle is tuned for. Ford tells the owners of these vehicles in their owners manuals to use only 87 octane unleaded regular gas, as that is what it's tuned specifically for, and it revolves around the basic issue of burn rate.

This has become a real issue in practical terms only since the advent of computer controlled fuel-injected vehicles in mass production, where the fuel delivery curves must be precisely calibrated for the burn rate. Before electronic fuel injection, it wasn't nearly the issue that it is now, so it's relatively new in the American automotive experience.

Thanks for your insight, B777!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

This is so weird......

I noticed the past few days that my truck runs MUCH better. Ive actually been getting the tires to light up under power in 2nd gear!! I thought it was the roads were colder up here, or perhaps a little sand maybe??? I asked my buddy today if he had "trouble" with his rear end this morning and he said no. Hes got a 5 speed 4.6 2x4. After reading this post, I just remembered that my last fill up was with Texaco. I usally fill up with Shell because its more conveinent. Is it just a freak thing????

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1999 F150 4x4 XLT BLACK ORP 4.6 5 SPEED 3.55
LUND HOOD SHEILD
K&N
FLOWMASTER SERIES 40 SINGLE OUTLET
CAPTAIN CHAIRS
PIONEER 6815's(for now)
SUPERCHIP
AIRBOX MOD
WAAG BRUSH GUARD
SPIRALMAX
KENWOOD 9015
SUPERCHIP STICKERS
MTX THUNDERFORM
KICKER 240 AMP
PIAA 9007'S
LUND RACERBACK
LUND LUNAR VISOR
NO DOOR CRACKS!!!

 

not really related to this topic, but since it was already mentioned.....
455 big block ...ccccooooolllllll
I am a fan of all three brands of 455s and used to have one on my old project car - it rocked!!!

 

Hi BlackenedFord,

Actually, temperature *can* make a significant difference in basic adhesion, or effective surface traction.

For example, typical ultra-high performance tires, like Goodyear GS-C's, get really loose and darn near worthless for any kind of "spirited" driving at anything much under about 50-55 degrees or so, as do most real out-and-out performance tires, due to their compounds.

Even these truck tires are subject to some of that effect, though to a lesser extent, so it could well be a combination of a bit better fuel in the tank with a cold road surface, perhaps.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer