mm&ff dyno of superchip
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From: Maine
mm&ff dyno of superchip
I am not trying to start trouble, and I know that things have very gotten heated and very personal when debating actual H.P gains of aftermarket computer chips.But I feel this is a valid piece of info on this subject.
In the November 2000 issue of Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords a test was done on their project Lightning "The Fridge"with a Superchips computer chip and an 80mm Mass Air Meter from Pro Flow.
To make a long story short, the Dyno results for the Chip alone are stated on page 70. They wrote:
"We were certain to dyno the chip and the meter independantly of each other. The chip gave us 14 horsepower over stock....The meter gave us a bit more.It gave us 24 horse over stock."
All dyno testing was done at Crazy Horse Racing.
My question is does this validate Superchips claim of 40+ H.P.?
Where does Superchips come up with their H.P. numbers? I have not seen any testing ,magazine or other, that has reproduced Superchips numbers.
I will end by saying that I will be extremely happy with my chip IF my speedometer can ever be corrected to compensate for my gear change.(been waiting for the better part of 6 months)
I cant say for certain that I did not gain h.p or tq from the chip, but I can say thay the tranny shift difference is worth the price.
Hope I did not offend anyone, Just trying to get some info out.
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99 F 150 4x4.ORP,S/B 4.6 4.10 gears, Gibson 3" cat back. K&N filter. Superchip
Other Toy: 1964 Falcon, 300 H.P. 306,TopLoader 4 spd. 9"Detriot Locker rear end with 3.91's
In the November 2000 issue of Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords a test was done on their project Lightning "The Fridge"with a Superchips computer chip and an 80mm Mass Air Meter from Pro Flow.
To make a long story short, the Dyno results for the Chip alone are stated on page 70. They wrote:
"We were certain to dyno the chip and the meter independantly of each other. The chip gave us 14 horsepower over stock....The meter gave us a bit more.It gave us 24 horse over stock."
All dyno testing was done at Crazy Horse Racing.
My question is does this validate Superchips claim of 40+ H.P.?
Where does Superchips come up with their H.P. numbers? I have not seen any testing ,magazine or other, that has reproduced Superchips numbers.
I will end by saying that I will be extremely happy with my chip IF my speedometer can ever be corrected to compensate for my gear change.(been waiting for the better part of 6 months)
I cant say for certain that I did not gain h.p or tq from the chip, but I can say thay the tranny shift difference is worth the price.
Hope I did not offend anyone, Just trying to get some info out.
------------------
99 F 150 4x4.ORP,S/B 4.6 4.10 gears, Gibson 3" cat back. K&N filter. Superchip
Other Toy: 1964 Falcon, 300 H.P. 306,TopLoader 4 spd. 9"Detriot Locker rear end with 3.91's
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Jarrett,
Yes, we can tell you *exactly* what happened. What MM&FF did was to order a custom Superchip compensated for the Pro-M MAF unit, which leans out the A/F ratios, and then turned around and used it with the stock mass airflow meter! You can't do that, as it's running far too rich, with A/F ratios in the mid 7's, when the Lightning needs A/F numbers of about 11.7:1 for best power!
They tested the custom Superchip with the STOCK mass airflow meter, which you can't do, as it was a custom program made for the Pro-M!
So the custom Superchip they ordered was running far too rich with the factory MAF unit, yet when they tested the Superchip & Pro-M together, they got very nice power gains, as then the Superchip was used correctly, with the Pro-M that it was programmed for! You'll notice that they did *not* test the Pro-M unit by itself to see what it did alone, with no other changes. If they had, you would have seen those numbers quickly reversed.
The engineer involved with this test at Superchips was very unhappy with how MM&FF did this and let them know that in no uncertain terms, and MM&FF has promised another test in a follow-up issue in the future.
This one really stands out as there have been so many Lightning owners who have verified the power gains of the Superchips on dyno's that this isn't even a question in Lightning owner's minds, and we serve more Lightning owners than any other company in the powertrain programming business. You don't see any of them posting things like "the Superchip didn't give me the power", or anything like that, they all note very noticeable power gains.
Just to give you an idea at the flywheel, the 1999 or 2000 Lightning is going to pick up anywhere from 40-46 hp, and at the rear wheels, a minimum of 32.5 to as much as 36 hp, and that has been verified so many times here on F-150 Online in the Lightning section over the past year or two that there has never been any question of what happens when you install the Superchip in the Lightning.
It's very simple, you can't run A/F ratios in the mid-7's and get decent power gains, that's obvious to anyone who knows anything about A/F ratios & tuning, etc. You can't order a custom Superchip whose program has been designed to work with a particular very important part, the Pro-M MAF, and then turn around and dyno test the custom Superchip without even using the part that it was tuned for, and *that* is exactly what happened here.
If anyone has any questions about this "test", feel free to give us or Superchips a call on this one.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Yes, we can tell you *exactly* what happened. What MM&FF did was to order a custom Superchip compensated for the Pro-M MAF unit, which leans out the A/F ratios, and then turned around and used it with the stock mass airflow meter! You can't do that, as it's running far too rich, with A/F ratios in the mid 7's, when the Lightning needs A/F numbers of about 11.7:1 for best power!
They tested the custom Superchip with the STOCK mass airflow meter, which you can't do, as it was a custom program made for the Pro-M!
So the custom Superchip they ordered was running far too rich with the factory MAF unit, yet when they tested the Superchip & Pro-M together, they got very nice power gains, as then the Superchip was used correctly, with the Pro-M that it was programmed for! You'll notice that they did *not* test the Pro-M unit by itself to see what it did alone, with no other changes. If they had, you would have seen those numbers quickly reversed.
The engineer involved with this test at Superchips was very unhappy with how MM&FF did this and let them know that in no uncertain terms, and MM&FF has promised another test in a follow-up issue in the future.
This one really stands out as there have been so many Lightning owners who have verified the power gains of the Superchips on dyno's that this isn't even a question in Lightning owner's minds, and we serve more Lightning owners than any other company in the powertrain programming business. You don't see any of them posting things like "the Superchip didn't give me the power", or anything like that, they all note very noticeable power gains.
Just to give you an idea at the flywheel, the 1999 or 2000 Lightning is going to pick up anywhere from 40-46 hp, and at the rear wheels, a minimum of 32.5 to as much as 36 hp, and that has been verified so many times here on F-150 Online in the Lightning section over the past year or two that there has never been any question of what happens when you install the Superchip in the Lightning.
It's very simple, you can't run A/F ratios in the mid-7's and get decent power gains, that's obvious to anyone who knows anything about A/F ratios & tuning, etc. You can't order a custom Superchip whose program has been designed to work with a particular very important part, the Pro-M MAF, and then turn around and dyno test the custom Superchip without even using the part that it was tuned for, and *that* is exactly what happened here.
If anyone has any questions about this "test", feel free to give us or Superchips a call on this one.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
From: Northwest Iowa, '00 F-150 Harley-Davidson
Sheesh. Seems to me that someone ought to be contacting MM&FF about printing a retraction and redoing the test! That's really irritating, Mike. 
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2000 F150 Harley-Davidson: Superchip, K&N FIPK
Hard Tonneau, Hidden Hitch, 2-Meter Rig (KG0UK)
'99 FLHRCI, '95 XLH
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2000 F150 Harley-Davidson: Superchip, K&N FIPK
Hard Tonneau, Hidden Hitch, 2-Meter Rig (KG0UK)
'99 FLHRCI, '95 XLH
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Harley Guy,
You're absolutely right, and that's basically what Superchips did, was get them to agree on a re-test for a future issue because of their flawed testing method. Superchips, and specifically that certain engineer who was involved in this, was *very* irritated at that.
They dyno'd the truck with the custom Superchip programmed for the Pro-M, but used the stock MAF with the custom Superchip instead, which immediately caused far too rich a fuel mixture, and cost a lot of power. That was their first dyno run, and then they added the Pro-M last, which skewed the test results to show huge power gains from the Pro-M, a part that has always shown minimal power gains once it's lean-out of the A/F ratio is compensated for.
Just to give you an idea, if you take a bone-stock Lightning and install the Pro-M 80mm MAF, you won't get any power gain from any increase in airflow capacity, as it's the same size as the stock Lightning unit, 80mm! But you'll show about a 14 hp gain on the dyno from the lean-out of the A/F ratio that the Pro-M causes. Now once that lean-out is compensated for and A/F ratios returned to what they were before the Pro-M was installed, you see the Pro-M 80mm unit adds about 2-3, maybe 5 true hp gain @ 5000 rpm from the Pro-M; and that simply comes from the samping tube being moved out of the airstream, which effectively reduces restriction a little bit; yet this "test" shows gains far above and beyond what *any* other dyno test has ever shown on that unit, and now we know why.
Darn right Superchips was PO'd, and called them on it right away. It doesn't take a rocket scientest to realize that if you replace the MAF with another MAF of the same size, 80mm, you're not going to see any significant power gains, *unless* they're playing games with the A/F ratios and not properly isolating the units in their tests, which is exactly what was done here.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
You're absolutely right, and that's basically what Superchips did, was get them to agree on a re-test for a future issue because of their flawed testing method. Superchips, and specifically that certain engineer who was involved in this, was *very* irritated at that.
They dyno'd the truck with the custom Superchip programmed for the Pro-M, but used the stock MAF with the custom Superchip instead, which immediately caused far too rich a fuel mixture, and cost a lot of power. That was their first dyno run, and then they added the Pro-M last, which skewed the test results to show huge power gains from the Pro-M, a part that has always shown minimal power gains once it's lean-out of the A/F ratio is compensated for.
Just to give you an idea, if you take a bone-stock Lightning and install the Pro-M 80mm MAF, you won't get any power gain from any increase in airflow capacity, as it's the same size as the stock Lightning unit, 80mm! But you'll show about a 14 hp gain on the dyno from the lean-out of the A/F ratio that the Pro-M causes. Now once that lean-out is compensated for and A/F ratios returned to what they were before the Pro-M was installed, you see the Pro-M 80mm unit adds about 2-3, maybe 5 true hp gain @ 5000 rpm from the Pro-M; and that simply comes from the samping tube being moved out of the airstream, which effectively reduces restriction a little bit; yet this "test" shows gains far above and beyond what *any* other dyno test has ever shown on that unit, and now we know why.
Darn right Superchips was PO'd, and called them on it right away. It doesn't take a rocket scientest to realize that if you replace the MAF with another MAF of the same size, 80mm, you're not going to see any significant power gains, *unless* they're playing games with the A/F ratios and not properly isolating the units in their tests, which is exactly what was done here.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer