My Superchip came in right before my family and I were due to leave on vacation. I ran to town to run some errands and fuel up with 93 octane. In my haste I fueled up with 87 octane. Well, it was to late so I installed the chip anyway and test drove the truck to make sure it didn't have any problems with the 87 octane.
We hooked on to the 5th wheel and hit the road. When pulling any kind of incline I had a hard time maintaining 70 mph without the truck wanting to downshift. She seemed content to run around 60 to 65 mph in overdrive.
I ran that tank of gas out and filled up with 93 octane. Same road, same hills, 70 to 75 mph in overdrive with no downshifting.(And not I don't pull at 75 mph but she did creep up there a couple of times) Even my wife was shocked. There was a very noticable differance in how the truck pulled.

I'm pulling a 30' 5th wheel with a loaded weight of 8,100 lbs. The truck and trailer on the scales weights 13,880 lbs. The trucks GCVWR is 13,500 lbs. So yes, I'm using everybit of that truck and then some. On the 950 mile trip she averaged 9.6 mpg pulling.

I checked the mileage unloaded and got more good news. Before the chip I averaged 15 to 15.3 mpg on the highway. My first tank with the chip she did 16.53 mpg.

Thanks to Mike for all his help making this work. As hard as I'm working my truck there is no doubt in my mind that the chip was a good investment.

------------------
1999 F-250 LD 4x4 Lariat Supercab, 5.4 w/3.73 LS Limited Slip, Wedgewood Blue & Silver.
K&N FIPK
Flowmaster 40 Series
with duel stainless
tips in front of the
rear tire (see lightning)
Superchip
Line-x
Mobil One

 

Dear Conocoan:

Did you have a chance to tow before chipping it?

Specifically, what are your comments about the tranny holding in OD (eg: did it downshift on every little grade?)?

Mine (no chip yet) downshifts when speed drops 4-5 MPH -- and I had expected that it would have first unlocked the converter -- then wait until 8 MPH before making the downshift.

While I got 10.2 (11,000# GCW by way of travell trailer) using OD -- I'm nervous about it downshifting every mile or so for every little grade.

Tks,



------------------
Y2K™ Jim

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

Hi Conocoan,

Thanks for a very informative post! This is a good one for those who have to do towing and wonder how the Superchip will work for them.

You were lucky not to get any detonation using the Superchip on 87 octane, especially once you put that load behind the vehicle. I'm glad you took the extra time to check that out for sure before you set out on your trip, very thorough of you!

The description you gave of going up that same road & grade on 87, and then on premium gas, is a great example of what happens if you run it on regular, you don't get the raw power gain. Then when you used premium, which it's of course designed for, you got the power gains and could tell the difference. Going over the same route and seeing the differences of how much of a load & grade it will pull & still remain in Overdrive is a very good example of the increased torque on part-throttle with the Superchip, excellent comparison to use.

Glad to hear it's working for your situation, & thanks again for a very informative post!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Dear Y2K Jim

Yes, I did quite a bit of towing before I chipped the truck. My experiences towing were very similar to yours. It would downshift if the speed dropped 4-5 mph. And yes, any grade or head wind were a killer.

In an attempt to eliminate the downshifting I would ease off the gas and let the speed fade back but it's hard to always catch it in time. (An 8 mph window would make it a lot easier.)Needless to say, it can be very frustrating.

So the bottom line is this. Using the above driving practices, she seemed happiest to pull around 60-65 mph if there were any long grades or headwinds. (The 5th wheel catches a lot of wind.) She would run 70 mph on level ground or short slight grades. After the chip and using the same driving practices it was much much easier to maintain 70 mph. To be honest, it made way more difference than I expected. And, my wife was happier because she didn't have to listen to me growl everytime the truck downshifted.

I hope this helps. Where are you on gas mileage? Nothing I've done has helped except the chip. I'm thinking about electric fans but as hard as I'm working this truck and in Louisiana heat they will have their work cut out for them.

------------------
1999 F-250 LD 4x4 Lariat Supercab, 5.4 w/3.73 LS Limited Slip, Wedgewood Blue & Silver.
K&N FIPK
Flowmaster 40 Series
with duel stainless
tips in front of the
rear tire (see lightning)
Superchip
Line-x
Mobil One

 

Thanks, Conocoan:

Some things that make me scratch my head:

Same trailer in all scenarios - weight varies by a couple of people or so.

1984 GMC Suburban 6.4L diesel 3.42 axle P235R75/14 - always towed in direct.
General towing @ 65 to 70 = 12-13 mpg (way back in the days of 55mph speed limits, could regularly turn in 13-14 mpg).
Top speed = ~75 +- wind. HP= 130

1997 SC 5.4 3.55 P255R75/15: same 65-70 mph in direct usually came in 7.5~8 mpg. HP=230 top speed = ~75 +- wind (same top speed??!!?? and 2x the hp)

Y2K SC 5.4 3.73 LT245R75/16: towed in OD. 10.2 MPG top speed = ~75 +- wind.

For this 150 mile test the road speed was slightly non-standard: approx 30 miles at 50-55 MPH + 90 miles @ 60 MPH + 30 miles @ 70 mph = 10.2 mpg. It takes about 10 miles to get to the freeway, then I ran at 60 mph for 55 miles, then 50-55 for 10 miles. On return trip, ran 50-55 for 10 miles, then ran at 60 until the wife couldn't stand going so slow and I upped it to 65 then 70.

Normally I wouldn't have gone at 60 -- but normally that trip would have netted 7.8 MPG -- sooooooo the 10.2 (filled to overflow at both ends) is real and satisfying.

Now, the real head-scratcher is the top speed. Seems all three engines can only pull that trailer 75 MPH at best (more with tailwind, less with headwind) -- yet the HP for the diesel is 50% of the gassers (130 vs 230~260) and the the diesel had 63% of the gassers' torque (220 vs 330~350lb ft)!

While I can tell a difference, the gross differences in HP and Torque do not show up in my seat-of-the-pants feel.

I suspect that the frontal area of the trailer is the deciding factor at speeds over 70 (I do know it is an exponential rate of increase).

I've some graphs comparing the old 1984 GM 454 vs the 6.2L diesel vs the 5.4L gas if anyone's interested.

It's starting to look like there's a chip in my future -- but mostly for gear control.

Regards,

------------------
Y2K™ Jim

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

Hi Conocoan,

Since you made mention of possibly going to electric fans, you might want to read Neal the HP Freak's posts in his thread "Victorys & Defeats Part 3" I think it's called, here in the Computer Chips section. Towards the last few posts, he made an entry about his electric fan conversion.

Neal just installed twin 16" Derale fans (I think I got the name right) on his 1999 5.4 F-150, and is very happy with the results. I would think that setup he is using should work well just about anywhere, so you might want to touch base with Neal to see exacxtly what he did.

Just FYI........

Good luck!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

I'm towing a 30' Dutchmen travel traler that we load up w/everything that we even think we might need. The only thing that I've found significant is the speed we travel at. Anything over 70mph causes a hugh drop in fuel milage. If I keep it under 65mph, I see milage just over 14mpg. Pulling at 75mph my fuel drops to 10mpg. BUT I've also found that w/this engine, 75mph is a drop in the bucket. It will pull even faster with no problem at all. I've never pulled w/this truck w/out the superchip.

------------------
2k F250 CC SWB 6 speed 4x2 Diesel XLT Super Duty, Woodland Green
Power Mirrors, 3.73 LS, Captains Chairs, ARE tonneau top, rear privacy glass
TT Pkg, Class IV hitch, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps
265/75/16 AS OWL tires, am/fm/cassette/cd, rechargable MagLite
Clarion APA 5240 amp, Memphis speakers:Components front, 5x7 rear, 10"sub
SuperChip, Stepshields, Ventshields on windows, rubber bed mat
rugged liner bedliner on tailgate, quick disconnect jumper cables
unaFORDable (decal on tailgate)

 

I hear what your saying Y2K Jim. The same top speed on all three engines is hard to explain. I hate to admit this but after installing the chip I have seen 80 mph pulling the 5th wheel. My moto has always been, "anybody driving slower than me is an idiot and anyone driving faster is a MANIAC!" But seriously, I did it for a short distance just to see what the truck had.

I'm sure we've all heard the old saying, "There's no substitute for cubic inches." If you look at the hp & torque figures on the 5.4, we should be able to pull with a 454 or 460 built in the 1980's but I wouldn't bet on it. A friend of mine owns a local feed store and has the same truck Tina has. He never runs out of engine, just runs out of truck. He recently told me about pulling a 35' goose neck with 22,000 lbs of feed at 75 mph. He said his tail pipe was about 6" off the ground. Not a smart thing to do but it says a lot about the PSD.

Ford is replacing the 7.3 PSD with a 6.0 PSD in 2003 that will have more hp and torque. So much for my cubic inches theory.

P.S. Thanks for the tip on the fans Mike.

------------------
1999 F-250 LD 4x4 Lariat Supercab, 5.4 w/3.73 LS Limited Slip, Wedgewood Blue & Silver.
K&N FIPK
Flowmaster 40 Series
with duel stainless
tips in front of the
rear tire (see lightning)
Superchip
Line-x
Mobil One

[This message has been edited by Conocoan (edited 09-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Conocoan (edited 09-06-2000).]

 

What a great thread full of towing info, excellent!

I just wanted to comment briefly on some of the observations about different engines vs. towing speeds etc. You will of course find that in addition to the normal differences from displacement & peak hp & torque numbers, the actual *shape* of the power curve will make quite a difference as well, in addition to some very important basic differences between diesel & gasoline motors. Diesels of course make tremendous amount of torque down low, while not producing a lot of peak horsepower for their displacement as compared to gasoline engines. Looking at just the peak hp & torque numbers doesn't always tell you a lot in that regard sometimes, so you can find all kinds of interesting results in these different situations.

Great thread!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Thanks Mike, the chip arrived today (6 Sep 00) in the mail. The wife did not shoot me for spending the money on a chip what a suprise. It took about an hour to put the chip in. I'm slow. Followed the instructions that came in the box and for added safety measure used a can of air to blow out the computer case. Removed the battery just so I can get my big hands back to the wire harness. The battery case was still in the way. It fired up with no problems and let it run for about 10 minutes. The tank is 3/4 full of 87 octane. So it wll be a while to fill up with premium.

Plan on towing the camper this weekend to see what happens. Sounds like all will be good according to everyone else.

I have one question for anyone wishing to answer it. According to ford you should not tow in over drive. At least with my truck I have to take it out of OD to tow because it shifts too much or get way to much RPM's. Am I correct or will I need to see what the chip will do?

------------------
1997 F-150 XLT Extend Cab, 3 Door, 4.6L (Winsor), Long Bed, Tow Package, Teal over Silver, K&N Air Filter, Tow 27 Foot Travel Trailer, 2 repaired doors

 

There was another thread on this. The jist of it was, don't tow in OD (as you say, to prevent constant downshifting).

 

My towing experience was a little different...

I have a 98 Expy that weighs about 6,000 lbs with 2 poeple, crap, and full tank. I tow a 23.5', 5,000 lb boat.

I have the 5.4, chipped, and have the 3.73 rear.

I found it difficult to tow in OD. The truck lagged and had NO TORQUE what so ever in OD at about 55 MPH. Moreover, the truck jst didn't feel like it woul go much faster than 55 without really getting on it. However, it towed GREAT out of OD. I had the power I needed at all times. I was right in the peak torque range.

Why would yo tow in OD? Would not that give worse gas mileage? Bad for the trans? Too much strain on whole vehicle? Too much wear/tear?

Mine wouldn't shift a lot in OD, but I was on relatively flat land. Wouldn't the shifting cause more heat and wear?

Maybe its me, but I feel towing more than 5500 would be dangerous! My GVCW is about 13000 or 13500, so I was under the max. It didn't struggle that much, but I noticed I was towing 5000 lbs!

------------------
Rand

98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)

 

I read a thread about this and I can't remember if it was here or at ford-diesel.com. The guy had a trans gauge and his trans ran cooler using overdrive as long as it wasn't shifting in and out of overdrive. My owner's manuel doesn't say not to tow in overdrive, it does say not to allow the trans to shift back and forth frequently. However, I've talked to chevy owners and their manuels advise against using overdrive.

To me it's really simple. The 5.4 builds it's peak torque between 2000 and 2500 rpm's. So when pulling I try to keep the tack up to at least 2000 rpm. Anything less and there's no power. So when pulling around 55 mph I don't use overdrive.

When pulling at speeds of 65 to 70 mph I use overdrive because I don't want the engine turning 2900 rpm needlessly. If I hit hill country and she starts shifting in and out. I simply take it out of overdrive.

So if I had to guess Bostondog, your 4.6 pulling a 27' trailer will be pretty loaded and overdrive is probably out of the question. Just keep in mind where that tack should be while pulling, listen to the truck, and it will tell you what to do.

Rand says he doesn't feel it's safe to pull more than 5500 lbs. Here I think you have to look at more than just engine. You have to look at suspension, brakes, and how your loaded. When I put my F-250 on the scales with the 5th wheel it shows that I have 1700 lbs over the rear axles. The weight is distributed over all four wheels and brakes instead of just the bumper. You get better braking and handling. If I was pulling a 30' travel trailer I would have around 800 lbs on the bumper. That takes weight off the front tires and brakes and has a somewhat negetive affect on braking and handling. That said, I wouldn't want to pull as much weight with a bumper pull as I pull with a gooseneck or 5th wheel.

Sorry for the long post, just passing on my experiences.

------------------
1999 F-250 LD 4x4 Lariat Supercab, 5.4 w/3.73 LS Limited Slip, Wedgewood Blue & Silver.
K&N FIPK
Flowmaster 40 Series
with duel stainless
tips in front of the
rear tire (see lightning)
Superchip
Line-x
Mobil One



[This message has been edited by Conocoan (edited 09-07-2000).]

 

Good post, Conocoan!

The subject of whether or not you should leave Overdrive on when towing really boils down to this: if the vehicle is cycling in and out of Overdrive, then leave it off, as it is this cycling in and out of Overdrive while towing heavy loads that puts the accelerated wear & tear on the transmission, not the act of towing in Overdrive by itself. It's only when the vehicle cycles in and out of Overdrive that you get this particular accelerated transmission wear in these newer automatics.

Now it *is* true that Ford *used* to say to never tow in Overdrive, in the older AOD automatics, but that has changed, even though some dealerships still tell people that. They may think it's the easiest answer, and it probably is, as that way you eliminate the problem by not towing in Overdrive.

However, I just wanted to point out that it's the cycling in & out of Overdrive while towing that causes the accelerated wear. If the vehicle will stay in Overdrive in your particular towing situaiton, or it only downshifts when going up a grade, then you can tow in Overdrive, and I would, just to save the gas. Overdrive is just 4th gear.

The bottom line of course is to do whatever makes each person feel most comfortable, as always. Like in Rand's situation, he's right, there is very little available torque at 55 mph in Overdrive on light throttle, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts. So in that situaion, I too would take it out of Overdrive, of course.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 09-07-2000).]

 

Thanks for the towing insight. Will check out the super chip this weekend towing the camper. With the chip I have noticed better shifting already.

------------------
1997 F-150 XLT Extend Cab, 3 Door, 4.6L (Winsor), Long Bed, Tow Package, Teal over Silver, K&N Air Filter, Tow 27 Foot Travel Trailer, 2 repaired doors, Super Chip, Email bostondog@worldnet.att.net