I just wanted to share a recent experience and get some comments and feedback from you guys and gals.

I have the FlipChip in my truck and because of high gas prices, have been missing the extra kick from running premium fuel. So I tried a little experiment. When I first installed my FlipChip, I still had a half tank of 87 octane in the truck and tried it in both positions. At first I thought there was something wrong with the chip because I felt no difference between the two positions, and was expecting some bad pinging in position 2! Mike put my mind as ease explaining I had a knock sensor that actually detuned the computer enough that it would not ping even with 87 octane. Of course I wasn't getting the benefit of the 93 octane programming until I filled up with high octane, but it got me to thinking...

Can I run 89 octane in position 2 and feel the difference? YES!

Due to high gas prices I've been running 87 in my truck with the chip in position 1 because I don't see any difference in gas mileage between position 1 and 2, and 87 octane is 20-25 cent cheaper per gallon here in GA. Last tank full I topped off with 89 octane (less than 10 cent more than 87) and flipped the chip to position 2. The truck is running great, I'm feeling more kick than I did with the 87 octane, and the gas mileage is still consistant with what I was getting before! Just wondering if anyone else has seen similar results?

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Paul...
99 F-150 XLT SC Sport, 4.6L, Auto, Captain Chairs, Class III Towing Package, 3.55 LS, Sliding Rear Window, White, 4X2, CD, Soft Factory Tonneau Cover, K&N Filter, WMS Velocity Tube, Line-X Spray on Bed Liner, Gibson Side Swept Cat Back System, Superchips Flip Chip, and the Original F150online Decal...

What more is there!

ptarnuzzer@netzero.net

 

Hey Paul,

Interesting post, and good to see you drop by again!

One thing you will also want to remember is that when you Flip the switch, the program change does not happen in "real time", as you still have the previous program in accumulated memory. So it takes a day or two of driving to slowly overwrite what is already in memory. I point this out because this can have a big impact on the mileage results you see for the first tank or two, it will slew those results negatively. It can take as long as 1500-2000 miles to see the peak effects on mileage change anytime you change the program on these 1999 & newer Fords, a very important thing to remember. The only way you can make direct back-to-back mileage comparisons is to do a battery disconnect each time you flip the switch, in which case you should see about helf the mileage gain from the Superchip immediately, and the rest will slowly come in as you accumulate the next 1000-2000 miles. That is why you're seeing the mileage results you are.

Disconnecting the battery is not *required* to change programs, just be aware that you will not be able to do direct mileage comparisons (or direct performance comparisons either)unless you do disconnect the battery.

For example, let's say you had been running the Flip Chip in Position 2, the program for premium, and then completely removed the Superchip without disconnecting the battery. At first, you would feel no difference, making you think the Superchip wasn't doing anything at all! When in fact, you're still running on the Superchip's program stored in memory for a day or two of driving, and then you would see that the power gain would drop off very gradually.

Just FYI on the Flip Chip & how the Ford computer works.....

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html

 

Mike,

Thanks for the clarification! I have run several tanks of gas through my truck in both settings (prior to the gas prices skyrocketing) but still did not notice a big difference in gas mileage between the two. I was actually getting better mileage with the 87 octane using position 1! But then again, for some reason the extra umph of the premium and the superchip tend to cause my right foot to gain considerable weight, so that may have an impact! I'm sure it's psycological: Position 1 = Adult, Position 2 = Kid! But, what the hey, it's my toy!

I have been noticing an increase in mileage lately, but I'm thinking it's finally getting broken in (23,000 miles)! On a trip to North GA last week, I averaged 19.6 MPG, mostly Highway (I-75) averaging 80 mph! I was impressed! Back and forth to work I'm averaging real close to 18 MPG!

I have one other questions for you, I read an article on this 104+ Octane Booster the other day and it said it will increase octane as much as 4 points and last for 3 tanks of gas! I can see the 4 point increase, but don't see how it will last three tanks of gas! Right now, the difference in 87 to 93 octane is .25 per gallon, which equates to about $5.00 per tank full, or $15.00 over 3 tanks. If this 104+ stuff works as advertised, it would be cheaper for me to fill up with 89 octane (.07 more than 87, $1.40 per fill up or $4.20 over 3 tanks) and add one bottle of 104+ ($4.99) every 3 tanks (@$10.00 vise $15.00). Is it worth it?

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Paul...
99 F-150 XLT SC Sport, 4.6L, Auto, Captain Chairs, Class III Towing Package, 3.55 LS, Sliding Rear Window, White, 4X2, CD, Soft Factory Tonneau Cover, K&N Filter, WMS Velocity Tube, Line-X Spray on Bed Liner, Gibson Side Swept Cat Back System, Superchips Flip Chip, and the Original F150online Decal...

What more is there!

ptarnuzzer@netzero.net

 

Octane boost of any sort is not worth the $$$. When they say it raises octane 4 points that would be from 87 to 87.4 not to 91. Octane boost is made from either toluene or Xylene with some other lubricants added so they can advertise that it lubricates and cleans as well. If you want some real octane boost go to the hardware store and buy a Gallon of Xylene for $4 and put that in the tank. But for a 30 gallon tank it would still probably raise 87 octane to maybe 89 or 90. I found all sorts of info on this on the net after reading a thread on the camaroz28.com boards. I have a 94 Impala SS with the LT1 and when I take it to the drag strip I add on gallon of Xylene to 5 gallons of 93 octane gas and presto 101 (or thereabout) octane race gas! This still isn't economical for the street though. I would just use your idea of 89 octane and position 2 as it seems to be working for you and probably only retards the timing at all if you are really in the gas hard for any length of time.

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99 Expedition 4.6
94 Impala SS- 383ci LT1
Best run so far 12.57@109MPH NA!


[This message has been edited by PullsmySS (edited 07-22-2000).]

 

Hi Rand,

It sounds as if you may have some misunderstanding of how this all works in automotive computers in general, and Fords in particular, and perhaps as to what we have posted here about this very topic.

As I have explained in the past, you cannot overlook the effects of accumulated memory, which is why you need to disconnect the battery if you want to see the immediate results, either upon installation or upon removal.

Nor can you overlook the effects of Ford's "adaptive strategy", which is even more important in terms of the effects of gas mileage.

It can and does take 1500-2000 miles to see the maximum effect on gas mileage in most 1999 & newer Fords for example, this has been tested & confirmed. You get about half that change right away, and the rest comes in slowly as you accumulate those miles It's due in part to Ford's adaptive strategy, where the fuel trim curves are constantly attempting to optimize themselves for the fuel being used and the manner in which the vehicle is being operated.

This adaptive strategy is something that, unless you are an automotive powertrain engineer instead of a CS major, you have probably never dealt with, and certainly not in any micro, mini, or mainframe computers, as they do not control automobiles. Nor do they have the feedback loops, sensors, circuits, instruction sets & etc. that cause the adaptive processes in these Fords that we have described here many times, and therefore a lot of that knowledge simply does not transfer over into the world of automotive power train controls. Don't feel alone, a lot of people have experienced this.

Now it is true that certain elements of program changes can show up fairly quickly as long as you disconnect the battery, but you do not see instantaneous full effects of *all* changes, as that simply is not possible in the Ford computer.

You are correct in that it does not take 1500-2000 miles to effect *any* program change, nor have we ever said that.

The majority of the power gain comes in right away, with the rest of it coming in slowly over the first 400-500 miles in the 1996 & newer EEC-V F-150's.

However, the fuel mileage effects can and do take longer to see their maximum net change in the 1999 & newer Fords. As I have explained here, you get about half that mileage gain right away, and the rest tends to come in more slowly, over the next 1500 to as much as 2000 miles.

I saw your post and thought perhaps just a little clarification might be in order for you Rand, and of course please feel free to give us a shout if you'd like to discuss this in greater detail, we're happy to go over this with you.

All the best,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html

 

I have been thinking about how the chip works and how the OEM computer works. I am a computer scientists and something tells me that when you install the Superchip it should not take 1-2 thousand miles of driving to recalibrate the program. Nor should it take 1 to 2 days.

The computer is running basically at light speed. I'm sure it can run through what ever SMALL program(s) that exists within this Superchip very quickly and update the OEM computer at a VERY RAPID pace. The only variable that might effect how long it takes is if the Superchip has a time variable programmed into the unit. Maybe it is programmed to update only at certain intervals?

I'm thinking that your computer can adjust to your driving habits quicker than you think! The computer can probably do more calculations per second than we give it credit.... It only took less than a second for my truck to respond to 87 octane with the Superchip installed. It ran like crap when I started it!

Anyways, I'm sure it takes some time but not as much as days or hours....

just my .02

 

Mike, you have mentioned several time the ford computers adaptive strategy in the "'99" and newer trucks. How about the '98 trucks?

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'98 F250 LD, 4x4, 4.6, 3.73,Superchip, K&N FIPK, Granatelli MAFS, Borla Cat Back Twin SS Out-The-Back, Bosch +4's, Michelin 265/75/16 E ATX M/S, Rear Lift Bags
HIPER 130/110W Superwhites, Edelbrock WTB

 

I agree with you Mike. I have no idea whats going on with the program(s) they wrote. However, we're talking apples and apples here. A chip is a chip and a wire is a wire no matter where you place it. Beleive me, Ford has not invented something that has not been done before. They just took an old idea and placed a fancy name on it.
True, I don't have ANY automotive technology experience, however, I am working on some of the most advanced technology in the world. I can relate my knowledge in other areas, such as automobiles. To think Ford is the only company to use software to run machines and use sensors for intput is crazy. This "adaptive strategy" is just a fancy term. There's nothing that advanced going on here!
Maybe in the auto industry it is..

The term "adaptive strategy" tells me that the program basically runs and accepts input from hundreds of sensors. When it finds something different than what is in memory, under cerain conditions, it overwrites the memory and uses that new info as the basis for running the engine. Simply put, the computer adapts to the environment (weather), the way in which the vehicle is used (another input parameter), and probably any mechanical problems that may occur (simply a clogged air filter), etc...

Its very simple! Its probably a very basic type of AI (Artificial Intel).

Trust me, this all happens VERY VERY quicky. What good would it do to wait a while before the program tells the computer to give the engine and its components the info it needs to use less fuel?

Using less fuel probably means what?
Mixing the air and fuel to its maximum potential.... Providing the most output for the least input!!!

Use the following variables:
Temperature (air)
Fuel (octane...Burn rates)
Temperature (Engine)
Moisture content in air (perhaps)
Amount of air entering the engine

The computer can detect all these things and then some in less than a second. Accordingly, the computer can then tell the various mechanisms to change the way in which they react to these variables. This can ALL be done in fractions of a second. Why would they wait 400 or 500 miles to change the memory?

This DOES NOT make logical sense to me. Why wait 400 miles to give me optimum fuel usage when I can and should have it NOW??? This would probably use MORE fuel over time?

I will agree that it could take some time. Like waiting until the engine reaches its peak temperature and then maybe another mile before all these settings take effect....

Sorry Mike... You know me, I gotta question things!

 

BTW: I'm doing a VERY detailed study of the fuel consumption on my Expedition. WITH and WITHOUT the Superchip. I will have the following details in my report:

-Driving behavior
-Fuel used
-Miles driven
-Brand of gas used
-Octane rating
-How the miles where used (highway, off-raod, etc...)
-Any notes

Should be interesting. The data I'm getting so far does not show me much. Therefore, I'm conducting this experiment over the course of months. I am noticing a big decrease in mileage from my last engine. My first 5.4 gave me 17-18 MPG on the highway, whereas I'm getting 14-15 with my FQR (with or without chip)...

 

Hi ksonger,

Yes, your 98 has it too, Ford computers have used "adaptive strategy" for quite a while now.

The only real difference we've noticed is the issue of how quickly the fuel mileage gains come in on the newest Fords' basically, which is why we went back the first quarter of this year and did some testing on fuel mileage to explain why we started seeing less gains thre immediately. And we found that it simply takes more miles on the newest Ford vehicles for the fuel trim curves to finish adapting to the different fuel curve programming, that's all.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html

 

Rand,

I'm not going to "argue" back and forth with you here. I have stated what I've stated, and stand by it.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 07-25-2000).]

 

Hi Rand,

I agree with you on how fast data is processed inside the computer. However, I would compare Ford's "Adaptive Strategy" to DSS (Decision Support Systems). In DSS it takes a long time to accumulate all the info on how problems have been solved in different situations. Therefore, its ability to help you solve problems constantly improves and the longer you use it the better it gets.
In the case of Ford's "Adaptive Strategy", it takes a long time till the computer gets the hang of your driving habits and that's why it takes so many miles to adapt to it.
I might be wrong, but that's the way I see it.

------------------
2000 Supercab XLT 2WD 5.4L 3.55LS White w. grey interior, spray-in AND plastic bedliner, hitch
Jeff Emig Special Edition
Picture of my truck

 

new5.4, You are very close to hitting the nail on the head. Dodge used this same type of system when the Intrepid first came out. After you drove the car for a length of time it would adjust the shift points, timing, etc. to fit how you drove the car. I had two freinds that had them and because of the differing ways they drove both cars reacted diffently when you drove them. Kind shocked me when I drove one then got in the other and drove it.

 

Allllrighty then!

Sounds weird but I guess thats what their doin!

I was curious as to how and why they would do it that way... Be nice if it could give me the BEST performance when I nail it and best MPG when I'm not!! Doesn't that make more sense? Then again not everything has to make sense....

Thanks for the other 2 inputs!

 

Rand, It will make adjustments as fro all that as you drive but the base line program adjusts itself to fit your particular driving style. An example would be let's say you are a driver with a moderately heavy foot, The processor would set it primary program after awhile to your average throttle postion, rpm range, rate of acceleration, and what not. Now let's say for some reason you could not dreive for a month (perish the thought) and your wife who drove with a lighter foot drove it all the time the primary program would adjust uitself over time to her driving style. This might not be a completley technically correct explanation but it is pretty close.