I have a 2004 F-150 Heritage 4.6L 4X4. I'm trying to get as much horsepower gains as possible. So far, I added a cold air intake, Helix Power Tower throttle body spacer, and dual exhaust. Soon, I'll be adding a Granatelli Mass Air Flow Sensor, and redoing my exhaust (True Duals). I've been looking for a chip or programmer to help out, but don't know which one is better for me. Also w/ the gas prices in my area, I'm not sure I want to pay $2.50+ for a gallon of higher octane. Any suggestions?

2004 F-150 Heritage 4.6L 4X4
LT285/75R16 Wrangler MTR's
Helix Power Tower
Pro-Comp cold air intake
Dual exhaust

 

Hi Silver,

First, I'd rethink just a couple of your proposed mods, as you can get better gains for your money - for example, I would not install a true dual exhaust system, as that will actually *reduce* available torque below about 3000 rpm (the *last* thing that truck needs)and hurt driveability and fuel mileage due to the reduced exhaust gas velocity killing cylinder scavenging.

You can get a much better result in low to mid-range torque and every bit as much horsepower gain at higher rpms with a properly flow engineered 3" single or SIDO Magnaflow cat-back system - Magnaflow is the way to go, they do the best exhaust flow engineering for these trucks & get the best results.

Next, I would save the money on that Granatelli (or any other aftermarket) MAF meter at this time - you don't need it at your power levels and more, as the stock unit has more than enough capacity. The actual power gain will be very small (nothing like the 15-17 HP they claim), and any MAF change will also require a *custom* tune to develop a new transfer function to correct the lean condition aftermarket MAFs cause - something their manufacturers don't tell you. They tell you it's a "bolt-on' part - we know, we sell them, too. The larger MAF's are great parts, don't get me wrong - it's just that their bang for the buck value is poor at *this* stage of the game in your modifications. So you'd want to do that later, and do other things first that will give a better bang for the buck. We do not advise upgrading the MAF meter on the 4.6 V8 trucks until you are over about 275-280 HP or have a supercharger, etc. Below those power levels, it's just not as good a bang for the buck investment as other mods would be.

In terms of what's actually going to give you the best bang-for-the-buck performance improvement, first it would be to have us do a set of 3 custom tunes in the 9100 custom version of Micro Tuner - that will improve performance more than anything else for the same or less cost - it won't feel like a supercharger of course, it's just the the single best bang for the buck, as nothing else for the same or less cost will improve the acceleration times by as much. You'll have 3 different custom programs, so you can still have one for use on 87 octane for example - then have one of the programs set up for maximum performance on premium gas for when you want to enjoy full power - etc., etc. You can "have it all," so to speak, and not be forced to always use premium gas all the time with our custom tuning, and you'll see many people here using our tuning.

Then next, since you already have an intake kit, I would next take care of the exhaust, and there I'd recommend doing one of the Magnaflow cat-back systems as I mentioned above - that is what will get you the best result, not a true dual exhaust.

At that point, you have the tuning, intake & exhaust done - for even more power, then it's on to things like electric fans, underdrive pulleys, and a larger throttle body. Then for still more, it's time for a a set of headers, and at about that point it's also time to upgrade the stock fuel injectors & fuel pump - at that same time it would also be appropriate to upgrade to the larger MAF meter, too. But not an aftermarket unit, there's a better & cheaper alternative - the Ford 90mm MAF unit.

I could go on and on, as everyone knows we've specialized in F-150 performance for many years - so I'll stop here.

To go over any of this (or all of it!) in proper detail, just give us a call at our number listed below when you get a chance, and have us go over with you how you use your vehicle, what you want to do, and then what we recommend, what it will actually do for your truck, and what it will cost, etc.

You can also drop by our web site at www.TroyerPerformance.com - click on "Shop" once the home page loads, and then once the next page loads, scroll all the way down and go into the "Performance Packages" section for regular F-150's & Expeditions, etc - there you will see everything from our Stage 1 all the way to Stage 5 packages for these trucks. Reading all the details on those will give you a very good idea as to the bang for the buck value & order in which to do your various performance mods, etc.

You've done some good things already, and you have some great ideas - I'd say to adjust them just a little bit, so you can best take advantage of each dollar you spend on performance. You'll get the best possible results and an F-150 that's a lot of fun to drive.

Thanks for dropping by & best of luck whatever you decide!

 

Thanks for the advice Mike. That info will greatly help me and my friend w/ his f-150 (if I share the info). He has a 99 5.4L and we're always fighting for horsepower and racing. He's done everything I've done so far, so needless to say he still smokes me on take off!

I'll definitely check out magnaflow for a cat-back system. Right now I have no muffler and it's y-ed infront of the spare tire w/ 2 1/2 echo tubes out the back.

Hopefully, I'll be talking to you very soon about the 9100 for my truck. And hopefully I can give my friend something to compete w/.

Thanks,
William Edwards

 

One more question mike. Do you have any recommendations on what I could do w/ a magnaflow (setup) or which one to get. Since I already have dual exhaust, should I just by one of their ss mufflers w/ SIDO?
Thanks again,
William Edwards

 

silverNCSU what size pipes do you have on your 4.6l on you dual exhaust? im thinking about getting a dual exhaust put on and wondering what size pipe i should use to get the best performance and sound.

 

I believe it's 2 1/2 pipe. I had a buddy of mine do it that own his own shop and I'm hoping to go back so he can put my Magnaflow on. I saw at the bottom about your intake and spacer. I've noticed quite a change in mine since I added it on. I'm not sure if 4wheelparts.com still has them on sale, but it's a pro-comp air intake but has a K&N filter on the end (so basically the same). And my spacer came from a performance shop down the road. It's a Helix Power Tower. You can find them online for around $89-$100. I must tell you though, since the intakes are made to fit the factory specs of the engine (like your hoses and stuff) you may have to fabricate somethings. Because the Power Tower is 1" thick I had to make a different setup for the hoses that connect back to the intake tube and also where the intake is supossed to mount. (side of the power steering fluid resevoir) Good Luck!
SilverNCSU

2004 F-150 Heritage 4X4 4.6L
Cold Air Intake
Helix Power Tower
LT285/75R16 Wrangler MTR's

 

do a search on the spacers before you buy, then spend the money on something really good. Mike is the MAN when it comes to mods-listen verrrrry carefully.

 

Hi William,

You're more than welcome - we get a lot of people calling us for help in those kinds of situations, where friends have the same (or close to it) trucks and are constantly racing each other, trying to out-do the other guy, etc. That's a blast, and as long as your friend doesn't find out about *us*, you'll have a potential "edge."

Exhaust stuff is off-topic for this section, but just briefly.............

If I understand you correctly (and I may not, as I'm not sure if you have *already* installed a true-dual exhaust or if you're thinking about doing that) - anyway, if I'm on target here, your present exhaust setup is basically straight pipes back from the catalytic converters - that will get you some higher-rpm horsepower gain over the stock exhaust, that is certainly true. However, that will also cause an actual loss of torque below about 2800-3000 rpm or so, hurting your initial off-the-line acceleration. That also hurts fuel mileage and part-throttle driveability - even though it probably sounds pretty good.

If you *already* have the true-duals on, then one option is to just leave them in place but install a Magnaflow X-pipe and then a muffler solution - there are 2 ways to go on the mufflers - either a single Magnaflow muffler that is true dual (dual 2.5" inlets & outlets,. I ran that on my Lightning for a long time), or a pair of 14" 4x9 oval Magnaflow's (that's what I'm running now), one for each pipe. That setup will get you more HP gain than what you have now, and help the low-end torque a little bit as well.

If you don't have the true-duals on yet, I'd suggest re-doing the exhaust so you pick that torque back up properly - either of the Magnaflow cat-back systems for the 1997-2003 V8 F-150 will do that for you. You can read all about them at this link on our web site: http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi...stems%3BFoMoCo - there are a lot of exhaust systems there for different FoMoCo vehicles, so to make it easy, you'll want to read up on Part# 15609 (3" single system), and then on the next page, Part# 15749 (Single In, Dual Out system) - those are the 2 Magnaflow systems for your truck.

Again - from where you are now, your absolute best bang-for-the-buck modification at this point is not the exhaust - it's to get the powertrain programming optimized, by having us do a set of 3 custom tunes in the 9100 custom Micro Tuner, or in our 4-programs chip - either way, you'll gain an easy 25+ HP and knock a minimum of 5-7 tenths (that's 5-7 truck lengths in the 1/4 mile, quite a bit) off your 1/4 miles times - and maybe more. Some trucks drop over a full second off those times!

Then once you've got the tuning done, *then* take another look at the exhaust - that is what I would do, as I'm focused squarely on what's going to be the best bang-for-the-buck mod from wherever a particular vehicle is right now.

At any rate, call us for details, as always - and good luck!

 

silverNCSU...would u recommend i get the 2.5" pipe on my truck...or 2.25" pipe? did you feel any gains or loses in your exhuast system toward your performance of your truck with the 2.5" pipe? Thanks

 

Hi LB51,

If you don't mind some advice from me on your exhaust..........

We generally don't recommend going "true dual" on these trucks (starting 1997 & up with the F-150), simply because the subsequent loss of torque below about 3000 rpm is rather severe - which hurts both part-throttle driveability and fuel mileage. This is due to the loss of scavenging caused by the reduction in exhaust gas *velocity* when you open up the flow that much.

Now we *do* have one true-dual setup that will actually increase torque at any throttle position or rpm, but it's darned expensive - not a good bang-for-the-buck for most people compared to just doing one of the 2 Magnaflow cat-back systems (which get the best results). Our true-dual setup is really intended for those who will spend whatever it takes to get every last HP - like our drag racers, etc.

If you are determined to do a true-dual setup, I'd advise going 2.25" diameter - but keep in mind that your stock Y-pipe is already 2.5", so to do this right, you'd need to have a good exhaust shop fab up a complete new Y-pipe assembly to neatly transition down to 2.25" from the 2.5" collector on the exhaust manifold & stock downtube/Y-pipe assembly - including the catalytic converters, etc. I would also advise the use of Magnaflow catalytic converters, a pair of them in 2.25" to replace the 4 stock factory 2.5" units.

This really isn't the section for discussing exhaust systems, but if you'd like to give us a call, we can go over this with you.

Best of luck whatever you decide!

 

im not getting true duals i just want dual tips...i want 1 pipe going into 1 muffler with a dual out set up with 2 pipes running out the back...what size should the pipes be in this set up?

 

Performance SIDO Exhaust System for 1997-2003 Ford F-series

 

Hi LB51,

My apologies, I completely misunderstood what you wanted to do!

This is off-topic for here, but just briefly (since I already stuck my foot in my mouth! )............................

LarryX very kindly posted a link to our SIDO setup using Magnaflow aluminized components - that setup is designed to be very low-$$$ - it utilizes dual 2.5" outlets, and Magnaflow components - feel free to take a look at it.

We also have the Magnaflow T-304 S/S cat-back systems, which have a 3" intermediate pipe diameter leading into a single 3" inlet in the muffler, and then exiting in a part of 2.5" outlets.

The "typical" configuration for SIDO (Single In/Dual Out) exhaust systems for these trucks is a 3" diameter intermediate pipe leading into a muffler with a single 3" inlet, and dual 2.5" outlets. And that works fine *if* it has proper flow engineering, like either of our systems on our web site.

That is much different than what I was talking about before, what would be done in a true-dual setup for a normally aspirated motor where you'd want to downsize all the tubing to just 2.25" to keep the exhaust gas velocity up.

In short, for the SIDO type of setup you want to do, the general rule of thumb is single 3" in, dual 2.5" out - hope that helps!

 

I tried to call you Mike after reading many of your posts... Seemed like you were the guy in the know... but after asking for you and spending sometime explaining to a gal that I have two vehicles I need to get MAX performance from she told me you don't do speed density systems and sent me on my way...

I explained that I could swtich over to MAF if it was the right thing to do but she just restated that you don't do speed density... short of arguing the point I had to hang up...

Any suggestions on where I can go to get help tuning my two trucks...?

Applications are:
90 Bronco 351 & 93 F150 351
4x4
California Street Legal
MAX HP & Torque
Will build motors to suit

Looking to design systems from scratch to meet these criteria... I have the money and no one so far seems to know what to do... or if they do, don't seem to want my money...

Any direction would be greatly appreciated...

 

Hi geffroman,

Hmmmmm...........What got passed on to me was just the *opposite,*that you did *not* want to switch over to mass-air. Accordingly, I instructed our staff to let you know we're not getting involved in a "major" project on a speed-density vehicle - that if you want us to do custom tuning on a motor with significant modifications, it would have to be a mass-air system. Perhaps they misunderstood - I'll talk with her tomorrow, as I know which person you spoke with here.

Let's see if we can get things back on track for you, OK?

You may not be aware of some of what is involved or required, etc. - for example, there is no such thing as CARB-approved custom tuning.

If you were just going to be doing say, a "standard" rebuild to freshen up both motors, and then do some mild external bolt-ons to make say, about 50-75 HP or so over stock levels, then we could work with the existing speed-density systems - we'd provide you with a series of parts and a "standard" Superchips tune for each vehicle that would be CARB-approved.

However - you seem to want more power than that. When you say you want to be "California Street Legal" *and* you want custom tuning or want to make "big" power, then you introduce additional problems and costs you need to be aware of.

The very first thing to deal with on such a project are of course the costs - you're talking about BIG $$$ here to make TWO trucks both go fast. So as with all such projects, what the vehicle owner needs to deal with FIRST, before anything else, is making sure that they can afford the project and actually have the money already available. I say that not to judge in any way, please understand - but rather just to point out that one of the most common problems has to do with vehicle owners getting in over their heads financially in build-up projects on ONE vehicle - let alone TWO. You may very well already know all of that - if so, my apologies for pointing out the obvious.

We can take the performance levels of those vehicles just as far as you want to go - literally. We'll be more than happy to take care of this for you - we can supply you with the built motors, blowers, ignition systems, and just about everything else needed.

Or, if you just want us to tune these trucks for you based on whatever you do to them there locally, we can do just the tuning if you like.

The easiest route to get some real power and stay CARB-approved is to simply build a couple of shortblocks, stick with stock cylinder heads & drop a CARB-approved supercharger kit on each motor. That will get you into the 400-450 HP level (which is more than a stock Lightning makes at the flywheel!) in the least expensive manner, and make each of those 2 vehicles run a whole lot quicker & faster than they ever have before - easily in the 14's in the 1/4 mile (unless they're upwards of 6000 lb. or heavier trucks, in which case they'd be in the low 15's, at least, if not better at those power levels). Now I don't know if the 400-450 HP level will satisfy you, so we'll need to discuss this in more detail, obviously.

There is also the very real possibility that other parts/components on those two older vehicles are going to need to be replaced or upgraded - like the ignition systems, fuel delivery systems, transmissions, differentials, etc., all the way down to the nickel & dime stuff.

We'll be more than happy to work with you to provide whatever you will need for whatever you do to make those engines do - here's what I suggest for us to hook up:

Shoot us an email with your name & phone number for me to call you personally to go over everything - now just to let you know my schedule, we're leaving tomorrow for FFW in Richmond, VA, so I'll be out of pocket from roughly about now until Monday. So if you wouldn't mind, shoot an email to the address below with your info so I can contact you, and then I'll give you a call, on either Monday or Tuesday (Monday might be too hectic with us just getting back from FFW, etc.), if that works for you?

Then we can spend some time going over everything in proper detail & get this project going for you.

Here's the email address: sales@troyerperformance.com

Thanks again for your call & your post, & I look forward to speaking with you about this project just as soon as we get back from this weekend's Fun Ford Weekend event in Richmond - & thanks for your patience, too!

All the best,