Electric Fan for improved perfomance?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
From: So Ca
misc comments:
I agree, an electric fan only runs when needed which is usually in city traffic on a hot day. I wired an LED across the fan motor and mounted it on the dash so I know when the fan is running. Even on the hottest summer days, it only runs when idling for too long or when driving too slow for too long. I've never seen the fan run while on the freeway, but then I don't usually draft.
Most import cars use electric fans cuz they keep making a mistake during assembly and mount the engine sideways. Can't drive a radiator fan from the engine, so they had to stick in an electric.
I installed a PermaCool "Hi Performance" electric fan. It's rated at 2950 CFM. Plenty for my 4.2L w/manual trans. I don't know of anyone that makes a fan specifically for the F-150, but as long as you have enough CFM for your size engine, you should be fine.
I really don't see a need to run an electric fan after the engine is shut off. All it's going to do is cool off the water in the radiator. Without the engine running (and the water pump pumping) the engine is going to stay hot. You may get a little engine compartment cooling, though. Actaully, it might even be a bit of a thermal shock to cool radiator water and then restart the engine. The water in the engine is still hot so the thermostat is open and as soon as you restart, cooled radiator water is pumped into the engine.
An engine-driven fan is much more efficient than an electric...when both are running. However, the electric runs so rarely it is overall more efficient.
The only experience I have with factory eletric radiator fans is in my wife's '85 Camry. It turns off as soon as you turn off the engine. What I usually do, however, is if we just got home and the fan is running as I pull into the garage, I let the engine idle until the fan turns off and then shut down the engine. I've been doing the same with my aftermarket fan (in the F-150).
reliability: I converted my '66 Plymouth to an electric fan over 15 years ago. It was still working when I sold it last year. I don't think reliability is a problem because the motors are designed to be used behind a hot radiator and they do not spend most of their life running.
------------------
Danny
'98 F-150 Std., RC, SB, 4x2, 4.2L, 5-sp, 3.08, AC, speed control, rear slider
with Syntec engine oil, MTL trans fluid, Edelbrock shocks, 50 Series Flowmaster, K&N with airbox mod, electric radiator fan, Superchip on-order!
I agree, an electric fan only runs when needed which is usually in city traffic on a hot day. I wired an LED across the fan motor and mounted it on the dash so I know when the fan is running. Even on the hottest summer days, it only runs when idling for too long or when driving too slow for too long. I've never seen the fan run while on the freeway, but then I don't usually draft.
Most import cars use electric fans cuz they keep making a mistake during assembly and mount the engine sideways. Can't drive a radiator fan from the engine, so they had to stick in an electric.
I installed a PermaCool "Hi Performance" electric fan. It's rated at 2950 CFM. Plenty for my 4.2L w/manual trans. I don't know of anyone that makes a fan specifically for the F-150, but as long as you have enough CFM for your size engine, you should be fine.
I really don't see a need to run an electric fan after the engine is shut off. All it's going to do is cool off the water in the radiator. Without the engine running (and the water pump pumping) the engine is going to stay hot. You may get a little engine compartment cooling, though. Actaully, it might even be a bit of a thermal shock to cool radiator water and then restart the engine. The water in the engine is still hot so the thermostat is open and as soon as you restart, cooled radiator water is pumped into the engine.
An engine-driven fan is much more efficient than an electric...when both are running. However, the electric runs so rarely it is overall more efficient.
The only experience I have with factory eletric radiator fans is in my wife's '85 Camry. It turns off as soon as you turn off the engine. What I usually do, however, is if we just got home and the fan is running as I pull into the garage, I let the engine idle until the fan turns off and then shut down the engine. I've been doing the same with my aftermarket fan (in the F-150).
reliability: I converted my '66 Plymouth to an electric fan over 15 years ago. It was still working when I sold it last year. I don't think reliability is a problem because the motors are designed to be used behind a hot radiator and they do not spend most of their life running.
------------------
Danny
'98 F-150 Std., RC, SB, 4x2, 4.2L, 5-sp, 3.08, AC, speed control, rear slider
with Syntec engine oil, MTL trans fluid, Edelbrock shocks, 50 Series Flowmaster, K&N with airbox mod, electric radiator fan, Superchip on-order!
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Ok everyone, this is from the November99 issue of 4x4 Power magazine. They did an article on swapping to an electric fan on a 92 Suburban with a 350.
Increase of 12hp and 16lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels. Plus an addition of 2mpg. The electric fan also lowered lowered the radiator temp from 210 degrees to 190, helping to extend the life of the water pump.
This particular setup used a flex-a-lite dual fan setup that pulls 5200cfm, 13.5volts and 30 amps at 2200rpm.
Sounds like a winner to me!!!
------------------
Todd, Orlando FL.
93 F-150 4x2, 4.9L, E-4OD, 3.08 rearend, 31x10.5 BFG A/T's, Skyjacker Softride Hydro Shocks,K&N Airfilter, Jacobs Electronics Plug Wires/Rotor/Cap. (Next mod: Flowmaster catback exhaust!)
Increase of 12hp and 16lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels. Plus an addition of 2mpg. The electric fan also lowered lowered the radiator temp from 210 degrees to 190, helping to extend the life of the water pump.
This particular setup used a flex-a-lite dual fan setup that pulls 5200cfm, 13.5volts and 30 amps at 2200rpm.
Sounds like a winner to me!!!
------------------
Todd, Orlando FL.
93 F-150 4x2, 4.9L, E-4OD, 3.08 rearend, 31x10.5 BFG A/T's, Skyjacker Softride Hydro Shocks,K&N Airfilter, Jacobs Electronics Plug Wires/Rotor/Cap. (Next mod: Flowmaster catback exhaust!)
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hey Todd,
Great article mention, a solid power gain and 2 more mpg to boot! That's a result that ought to get the attention of a lot of F-150 owners. I would absolutely *love* to see similar data on a late-model F-150. If even a 1 mpg gain could be documented, I'd say that it's well worth it for the full mile more per gallon alone. If I had any vehicles with viscous-clutch fans, they'd be scheduled for immediate conversion!
Thanks for the data,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Great article mention, a solid power gain and 2 more mpg to boot! That's a result that ought to get the attention of a lot of F-150 owners. I would absolutely *love* to see similar data on a late-model F-150. If even a 1 mpg gain could be documented, I'd say that it's well worth it for the full mile more per gallon alone. If I had any vehicles with viscous-clutch fans, they'd be scheduled for immediate conversion!
Thanks for the data,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
From: So Ca
30 amps?!? That's a lot of current. The PermaCool fan draws, I think, 9.8 A so two would draw 19.6 A and suck 5900 CFM. Either way, it only draws current when it's needed.
When I first mentioned I'd be converting to an electric fan, several people at work said I wouldn't gain anything because the clutch lets the fan slip when it's not needed. It's good to see some real numbers from that article. I didn't see the same gains, but taking that load off the engine has to make a difference.
------------------
Danny
'98 F-150 Std., RC, SB, 4x2, 4.2L, 5-sp, 3.08, AC, speed control, rear slider
with Syntec engine oil, MTL trans fluid, Edelbrock IAS shocks, 50 Series Flowmaster, K&N with airbox mod, electric radiator fan, Superchip on-order!
When I first mentioned I'd be converting to an electric fan, several people at work said I wouldn't gain anything because the clutch lets the fan slip when it's not needed. It's good to see some real numbers from that article. I didn't see the same gains, but taking that load off the engine has to make a difference.
------------------
Danny
'98 F-150 Std., RC, SB, 4x2, 4.2L, 5-sp, 3.08, AC, speed control, rear slider
with Syntec engine oil, MTL trans fluid, Edelbrock IAS shocks, 50 Series Flowmaster, K&N with airbox mod, electric radiator fan, Superchip on-order!
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
Likes: 11
From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Todd,
In a 4x2 vehicle an electric fan would be the way to go. I have reservations about using one off road. I have no firm numbers on HP drain caused by either the belt driven fan or the electric fan when they are both engaged. It would not matter when you are using an electric winch.
That brings up my concerns about an electric fan off road. When I play off road I usually use my winch. The electric fan you mentioned on the SUB draws 30 amps. When you are winching your RPMs are well over idle speed and you are either not moving or moving at the speed of the winch. This will cause your fan to kick in. When winching you do not need HP you need current. The highest output stock alt in a 97-00 F-150 is 130 amps. It would be down to 100 with the electric fan. Winching demands a lot from the cooling system so your fan will be running all the time you are winching. My winch draws up to 400 amps under stress which exceeds the alt output so the battery(s) are used to provide the remaining amps. I will have to stop sooner to recharge and it will take longer with the electric fan. That is the only drawback that I can see to an electric fan. Now I have some question. When was the 12 hp / 16ft lbs freed up? Fan off or fan on? How water tight is the fan motor? Did they test the fan for malfunction after being dunked? I use my vehicles off road so it is important for me to know these things before I will convert. I like the idea of + hp & torque but I will not trade them for problems down the trail. Please excuse the ramblings.
Regards
JMC
------------------
On Order: 99 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd
using: Wife'S 99 Explorer till arrival
In a 4x2 vehicle an electric fan would be the way to go. I have reservations about using one off road. I have no firm numbers on HP drain caused by either the belt driven fan or the electric fan when they are both engaged. It would not matter when you are using an electric winch.
That brings up my concerns about an electric fan off road. When I play off road I usually use my winch. The electric fan you mentioned on the SUB draws 30 amps. When you are winching your RPMs are well over idle speed and you are either not moving or moving at the speed of the winch. This will cause your fan to kick in. When winching you do not need HP you need current. The highest output stock alt in a 97-00 F-150 is 130 amps. It would be down to 100 with the electric fan. Winching demands a lot from the cooling system so your fan will be running all the time you are winching. My winch draws up to 400 amps under stress which exceeds the alt output so the battery(s) are used to provide the remaining amps. I will have to stop sooner to recharge and it will take longer with the electric fan. That is the only drawback that I can see to an electric fan. Now I have some question. When was the 12 hp / 16ft lbs freed up? Fan off or fan on? How water tight is the fan motor? Did they test the fan for malfunction after being dunked? I use my vehicles off road so it is important for me to know these things before I will convert. I like the idea of + hp & torque but I will not trade them for problems down the trail. Please excuse the ramblings.
Regards
JMC
------------------
On Order: 99 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd
using: Wife'S 99 Explorer till arrival
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City
Another point to mention the electric fans hardly if ever run in the winter.
There was also mention of the clucth kicking in only when needed.
I have yet to turn the engine on without the fan turning.
If anyone runs across a "perfect fit" conversion kit please post
There was also mention of the clucth kicking in only when needed.
I have yet to turn the engine on without the fan turning.
If anyone runs across a "perfect fit" conversion kit please post
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Dear moose-man,
Well, you can take that to extremes, as you don't want the engine's coolant to get much below 180 degrees or so. Below that point, you start getting more combustion chamber deposits and less power. The more heat you can keep in the actual combustion process without going into detonation, the better, as a general rule. That way you burn more of what's in the combustion chamber, hence getting the most out of the fuel being burned. You don't want to have the engine operating below it's best efficiency.
Anytime you're doing about 35-40 mph or more in most vehicles, you get enough airflow across the radiator in most cases (there are always exceptions) to keep the engine plenty cool, so you don't want to run fans when you don't need them, that's the whole point of the thread. The idea is to use electric fan(s), so they can be thermostatically controlled, and only come on when you really need them. Using them all the time means more work for the alternator, which creates more parasitic loss, so the idea is to keep the engine at it's optimum operating temperature. That is usually at about 190 degrees of coolant temperature for best peak horsepower on the chassis dyno in most cases.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Online Superchip ordering system:https://www.f150online.com/scpp/index.html
Well, you can take that to extremes, as you don't want the engine's coolant to get much below 180 degrees or so. Below that point, you start getting more combustion chamber deposits and less power. The more heat you can keep in the actual combustion process without going into detonation, the better, as a general rule. That way you burn more of what's in the combustion chamber, hence getting the most out of the fuel being burned. You don't want to have the engine operating below it's best efficiency.
Anytime you're doing about 35-40 mph or more in most vehicles, you get enough airflow across the radiator in most cases (there are always exceptions) to keep the engine plenty cool, so you don't want to run fans when you don't need them, that's the whole point of the thread. The idea is to use electric fan(s), so they can be thermostatically controlled, and only come on when you really need them. Using them all the time means more work for the alternator, which creates more parasitic loss, so the idea is to keep the engine at it's optimum operating temperature. That is usually at about 190 degrees of coolant temperature for best peak horsepower on the chassis dyno in most cases.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Online Superchip ordering system:https://www.f150online.com/scpp/index.html
