Well, I used the 1715 and went with the tow-perf. program. Maybe its just me but im just not feeling much of a difference. I set all of the options to the Superchips setting. I dont know, maybe there is a difference and Im just too oblivious to notice.
Anyway, I think I am going to put the truck back to stock and see if I can tell any decrease in performance. If I cant tell then I will just put the truck to tow program and save money on gas by using the 87 octane. Any ideas or comments well appreciated.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!

 

How many miles have you out on since you installed this program. I dont have a tuner so if I am wrong I am sure that I will be corrected, but you should put on some miles a tank full or so before it is 100 percent. Also if you were looking or a hugh performance gain the tow program is not the program to go with.

Just a thought.

 

I cant say I noticed a difference at 1st when I got mine & I use the tow perf setting also.. however after a few hunderd miles I think I can notice a difference now, guess I would have to return to stock to tell for sure..

 

Ok. I have put about a tank and a half on the truck since I programed the truck. I guess you are right about the tow-perf and noticing any major change. I am going to return it to stock and see if I notice anything. If I do I will put it back to tow-perf.
Would it be good to change the shift points and pressure higher at all?
Thanks for the help!!!

 

in the 87 mode you won't feel much, 91 tow feels better and 91 performance is the best. the truck uses adaptive learning and does get better over time. put in the tune you want and DRIVE THAT TRUCK! if you use light throttle pressure it won't learn much, put your foot down so it will learn that style of driving.
I've had the 1715 now for 3 months and still use it set to 91 tow in-between using the 9100 custom tuner (waiting for the new tune via email) set to "kill". you will notice a difference when you take it out.

 

Please clarify which tow program you are using, 87 or 91 towing. I expect the only differences most people notice by using the 87 program is improved shifting. Everyone I have read on hear notices a difference when using the 91 octane tow program.

Also, I noticed your signature has different gearing and tire sizes. Did you program those into the 1715?

 

A little perspective, if I may ...................

Here is the most common mistake made when attempting to evaluate any performance part - guessing at the results by "seat of the pants" feel. That is a mistake in just about any vehicle, but especially in anything weighing more than about 3800 lbs. or so.

The way to really tell what a performance part has done for the performance of the vehicle is to *measure* the performance of the vehicle - not guess at it. Measure it by doing controlled before & after timed acceleration runs, very easy to do with a G-Tech unit, for example - (we even carry them on our web site). That will tell you what the modification did for the performance of the vehicle, by giving you the time it took to go 0-60, or 1/4 mile, etc., both before the modification, and then again after it - guessing at it by seat of the pants feel tells you virtually nothing. How are we going to guess what 10 HP, or 18 HP, or 26 HP is supposed to "feel" like in these heavy trucks? The answer is, we can't.

In this case, we're talking about a lifted and big-tired truck - meaning it's even heavier & taller than "normal" - and virtually nobody is going to be able to feel much, if anything, from a 15 or 20 HP gain in the seat of the pants in such a vehicle - some people won't feel a 30 HP gain in such a vehicle. There simply is not enough change in the actual power-to-weight ratio to make a significant difference in the seat of the pants feel - it would take a supercharger or a big shot of nitrous to give a significant seat of the pants improvement that *everyone* could feel.

That in no way lessens the validity or success of the performance part - in that kind of vehicle, chances are you probably aren't going to feel a reduction in 1/4 mile times of a half-second - which is a very significant improvement - yet you still get there about 5 trucks lengths quicker than before, even while feeling little to nothing "seat of the pants."

Example: let's say the vehicle is a 4WD F-150 with extended cab, lifted 3 inches, 4.56 gears, 35" or taller tires, etc. Well, first of all, we have a vehicle that, with driver & fuel on board weighs upwards of, or even a bit more than, 3 tons. Take a stock 5.4, which makes 260 HP ('99-03) - that gives us a power to weight ratio of 23.07 lbs. for every 1 HP stock. Now, we add 20 HP - well, the power to weight ratio is now reduced only very slightly, to 21.42 lbs. per HP - you're not going to "feel" anything significant from that, but that in no way diminishes the 20 HP gain! The vehicle is still going to accelerate quicker thanks to that 20 HP, though we feel virtually nothing via seat of the pants.

Now add a supercharger to an otherwise stock truck, with say, a 100 HP gain now giving us a total of 360 HP - then that power to weight ratio becomes 16.67 lbs. per HP. Now *that*, a change from 23.07 lbs. per HP to 16.67 lbs. per HP, is something that virtually anyone will be able to feel a significant seat of the pants difference from.

The bottom line is, it's all a matter of perspective - a 20 HP gain in one of these trucks isn't going to feel like it does in a 3400 lb. Mustang - but the 20 HP (or 10 HP, or whatever gain from whatever part) is still there.

the fact is, the 87 octane tune in the 1715 is not giving you any significant power gain, you must use one of the premium gas tunes to get a "real" power gain from the motor. And there *is* a difference in power between the 87 octane tow-safe tune and the premium gas "tow-perf" tune - and there is also an mpg difference, if proper high quality premium gas is being used, to the point where it's not going to cost you more than about $100-$200 a year more at most, to run it on premium gas all the time with that 1715 tuning, as compared to running it on 87 octane - this assumes driving 15K-20K miles a year, and the national average 20 cent per gallon cost delta between regular & premium - which doesn't change much no matter how high gas prices go, there is usually an average 20 cent per gallon cost delta between regular & premium.

If you want to know what your performance mod did for your vehicle's performance, do properly controlled before & after timed acceleration testing - a format of 3 runs (first stock, then with the new part, then stock again), done within a 90 minute time period on the same day is generally how we do ours, to minimize the effects of temperature & humidity change, etc. - you can't compare times run in the morning with times run at 3 pm, in the heat of the day - nor can you can't compare times run on different days, etc.

And of course, here we're talking about performance at full-throttle - expecting such a vehicle to have any significant seat of the pants feel difference on part-throttle is going to get the same result, not much of a seat of the pants difference. When you're cruising at 2000 rpm at 30% throttle say, typical cruising conditions, the motor is just loafing - it's making maybe 80-100 HP under those conditions, and the approximate 8%-10% increase in power from our "standard" premium gas tuning gets you maybe 8-10 HP at that point - which generally isn't going to be "felt" very much in the seat of the pants in a 2.5-3 ton vehicle, but it's still there.

This is all pretty basic, but wroth going over form time to time again, we this comes up from time to time - just a bit of perspective, gentlemen.................

Have fun,

 

Thanks for the info Mike and everyone else. I understood about half of the things you said, but enough to get the picture. When I put the truck back to stock I did notice a slight difference. With all the info you all gave me I think I am going to put it back to Tow-Perf. and keep it there. I am also going to drive a little more aggresive like one of you said becuase I usually dont. One more thing to ask. Once I program tow-perf. in, should I customize any thing or leave it where it is at (i.e. shift points, pressure)?

P.S. I did change the gears and tire size on the tuner. That fixed the speedo problem.

 

I can attest that the 87 octane program will only very marginally increase gas mileage. I have maintained a record of gas mileage since I bought the truck new (June '01). With 43 tankfuls tracked before programming I was getting a minimum of 13.16 to a maximum of 15.75 mpg. Running 10 tankfuls after programming I have so far gotten a minimum of 14.79 and a maximum of 16.09 mpg.

I am going to bite the bullet and re-program the truck to the performance-tow setting after a couple more tankfuls. It will cost extra for the gas but I'm hoping the extra power will help with towing mileage which also hasn't budged from an average of 9mpg. We'll see.

One question, if the truck is making more power shouldn't I have to use less throttle to maintain a given speed? If this is the case then shouldn't my mileage have gone up because of higher efficiency? Just curious as this was my reasoning for buying the programmer in the first place.

I cannot speak to racing numbers since I don't race. Hell, I rarely drive over the speed limit.

Russ

 

Russ,

I got 11-12 MPG towing 7500# with my 2000 Expedition with a 5.4, 3:55 rear and a standard program SC chip and always towing in OD.

I of course drove as I should with 7500# and found 60-65 was the sweet spot for the motor. One 350 mile trip a friend had a stock Expedition towing a boat about 1000-1500# lighter than mine and couldn't get more than 9 MPG.

I had other things done to the Expy, but as far as performance, the SC, Gibson exhaust and Airaid intake and Transgo in the tranny was it.

 

Did the SC require you to use premium fuel? I'm sort of betting that when I re-program to the performance-towing settings I'll pick up at least a couple of mpg (I hope!). The down side is that I don't think it will offset the extra cost of premium fuel. We'll see.

I tow a 27'TT which weighs about 5000 totaly empty and so far I haven't been able to break 9.5 mpg except once when I had a pretty good tailwind the whole tank.

 

Hi Everyone,

Gata119,

I'd just take the default upload when you change programs - the WOT (wide-open throttle) shift points are already optimized in those tunes, and most of the time the truck doesn't accelerate any quicker cranking up the shift points. The shift point adjustments are there more for the pre-99 trucks that can't have the speedo recalibrated in the PCM, so as to make a gear change drivable, etc. The shift firmness adjustments are there more to allow adjustment when using a shift kit or FTVB, etc. Then they can also be used to tailor the vehicle to individual driver tastes, but that work has already been done pretty well, so there usually isn't much to be gained by playing with that manually, EXCEPT.......................

There us one change I *do* advise, and that is to make the 2-3 upshift point setting 2 notches above ST - exactly - no more, no less. That makes it get back up into Overdrive quicker after cresting a grade, etc. The adjustment is to the 2-3 shift, but it's a neat driveability trick that causes the tranny to get back up into 4th gear quicker after a "load event," like going up a long hill or mountain, or any grade. That is the only change I would make, just take the defaults for everything else (other than fixing the speedo calibration of course).

rksylves,

That is actually quite an increase in MPG in the "worst" numbers on the standard Superchips 87 octane tuning, more than I would expect - according to your numbers, you've gained over 1.5 mpg under "worst" conditions. The smaller gains for your "best" numbers are more in line with what I would expect on that tuning - a gain of a few tenths.

One thing that skews the numbers is bridging seasons - the use of winterized fuel (which has a lower energy content) always drops the fuel mileage, and the vast majority of the country uses "reformulated" fuels in the colder months. Expect the "summer" mpg to be about 8%-10% higher, offset by A/C use of course. It gets tough to make mpg comparisons in the "mid term," so to speak. Long term, comparing say one whole year to another whole year (say, comparing January 2003 mpg to January 2004 mpg, and so on), now *that* type of data tends to give us the best picture due to the change in fuel formulation that happens at least twice a year, and the cycle of using the A/C more in summer, etc. At any rate, nice data, & thanks for sharing it!

I would not expect to see as much mpg gain as you're hoping for by going to the premium gas tuning - 2 mpg overall gains is a bit too much to expect in anything other than highway cruising, I'd say. It seems the average overall gain runs more in the 1.5-1.7 mpg range, just to give you a rough idea of what we see - and of course, this varies based on vehicle configuration, thanks to the 3000 lbs. of potential weight difference from one F-150 to the next, etc. A few have reported as much as 3.5 mpg gains - but only when the planets are all aligned, the mpg gods are smiling, etc.

And last - yes, you're right about the Superchip that Family Ride used on his Expedition that got such good mpg towing 7500 lbs. That was the "standard" single program Superchip, which does require the use of premium gasoline. His 11-12 mpg towing almost 4 tons was a fantastic result - and it was thanks not just to the Superchip, but to the total combination of his various mods & how he had his vehicle configured.

Thanks for your posts,