Hello all.

I am interested in improving the low end (1000-2000 rpm) towing performance of my 97 F150 Supercab (4.6L, automatic transmission, 3.55 differential, K&N filter, no airbox mods, Gibson Cat-Back Duals exiting at the rear bumper). I tow a 5000# boat/trailer. Of secondary importance is improved mileage (I get 17-18 mpg currently...a combination of highway and city driving).

Any comments concerning towing performance after Superchip installation from those of you who have similar setups would be greatly appreciated. If you respond, please include your mileage changes.

Thanks.

Bill

 

I'm wondering about this too. I tow 5,300-5,800 lbs with my '99 5.4/3.55/E4OD. I'm quite happy with towing performance most of the time, but would like more umph up long hills. (E.g.: going up an 8% grade to an 8,000 summit, I maintained ~35 mph in second gear--as good as the typical other traiiler/RV pulling the grade, but working hard.) The Superchip sort of sounds like it would help, and I'm well aware that, additionally, crisper shifts would help keep the trany temp down. BUT: I have some concerns about the long-term effects of "hard" shifts under load. There was a msg yesterday on the "Late Model F-150 Maillist" from someone who had taken out the chip for just this reason: he felt the performance gain (at least while towing) was not worth the impact of the harder shifts. What have others' expetience been? Any comment, Mike T., on what the long-term experience has been in this kind of use?

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No, in fact the transmission will last *longer* with the Superchip, as a general rule, because it eliminates the slippage induced by the factory program, which uses a shift delay to elongate and soften the upshift, and spark retards to reduce engine power during and after the upshift, both of which spoil overall driveability.

The upshifts are not made "muscle-car" firm by any means on these vehicles. They are calibrated to firm up progresively and gradually, as you give it more and more throttle. This way, we don't spoil the smooth character of the vehcle when it's being driven conservatively. Meaning, it won't give you jerky upshifts on light throttle. For example, the increase in line pressure is only 20%. The improvement in shift quality is primarily accomplished by removed the upshift delay and the power-robbing spark retards that occur during and just after the upshift. The line pressure is bumped up just enough to quicken the actual shift a bit.

Should anyone towing a heavy load ever feel that their shifts are too firm, it's a very simple matter of making an adjustment ot the program. Just to give you an idea, in all the years we've been doing this, I have had a grand total of exactly *one* customer who wanted his shifts a little bit less firm when towing. His situation was such that he would have to go up long grades in second gear due to his load, and with the engine at higher rpm's for such a prolonged period due to the heavy load, the line pressure would build a bit too high for his tastes, and so we simply adjusted his 2-3 part-throttle upshift at higher rpms, a very simple adjustment.

Just to give you an idea as to how these programs are developed for these vehicles, each type of vehicle is programmed keeping the vehicle's basic inherent type of usage in mind. So we don't make SUV's and pickup trucks "slam" the gear changes, that's a complete misconception. We program everything from Maserati's to Lincolns, and everything in between, and each set of modifications is done keeping the vehicle's character in mind. When we program a Corvette automatic, yes, we do make those upshifts nice and firm, but that's a performance vehicle. When we reprogram a Caddy or Lincoln limo, we make sure to keep the vehicle smooth, because that is the "character" of that vehicle. The same basic thing applies to these trucks, as they shift soft and smooth until you get near full-throttle, which is when they firm up, but even then they are still not muscle-car firm, unless on special request.

I hope that helps to explain the programming approach to these vehicles, and please feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss this in greater detail.

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Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-08-2000).]

 

Thanks, Mike. You spent a great deal of time and patience answering questions on this list--much appreciated.

Rob Super

 

RSuper,

I dont believe the 99' Fseries use the E4OD tranny.

 

> I dont believe the 99' Fseries use the E4OD tranny.

The version for California (where everything is different) does.

 

RSuper, if your not in Ca. you probably have the 4R70W, like I have.
This is one Bad transmission for pulling, and maybe a chip would help, but if it shifts hard under a pull(with the chip) I don't think this tranny will hold, and if it goes, make sure you get that chip out before you get to the dealership, that's their ticket out of warranty work on your tranny....More of FORD TOUGH....a car transmission in a tow pack p/u, GO FIGURE?

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fordyfour

2000 4X2 Lariat S/C
5.4,3.55 Ls
True duals, K&N Filter
Super White Headlamps

 

Actually, the 4R70W tranmission is just fine, I'm on my 4th vehicle equipped with it. It stands up to towing just fine in my experience, and will withstand considerably more power. I'm running 320 hp into mine behind a DOHC 4.6 motor, and it's at 66K miles.

The worst part of those transmissions is their *programming*, as that is what induces slippage, robs power, and contributes to it's cycling in and out of Overdrive with a load on it, though the '97 & later units are the best, as they fixed their inherent problems in 1996. Also, allowing them to cycle in and out of Overdrive often while towing big loads is another no-no, and that single factor has lunched more automatic transmissions in these vehicles than anything else. In Overdrive, you're below the torque band in a lot of these vehicles, and so they don't have the power to go up a grade with a heavy load. So the transmission comes out of Overdrive (4th gear) and downshifts into 3rd. Doing that over and over is what really hurts them, and this is easily avoided. Simply turn Overdrive off when you're approaching a grade, so that the transmission doesn't cycle in and out of Overdrive several times.

Good luck!

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Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com

 

What I reallly hate Mike is that delay on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. I hate that!

 

Hey Mike, if you bought a truck for towing and was told you were getting the new 4R100 and ended up with a beefed up car tranny(4R70W) wouldn't you be alittle pi$$ed?
Your talking about a 4R70w in a car or light truck...maybe ok, but you buy something to tow 6000# plus, you want somthing that has been proven to hold up and if this chip will do the trick, how about sending me one ATC2 and I'll test it.....JOKE....
My point is, no 4R70W will hold up to a 4R100 for pulling, and please no comments on "you should have gotten a heavy duty", I don't need one and I don't like their looks.
I had a 97 5.4 S/C and it pulled this same trailer with ease, more of Ford Quality.... and FORD TOUGH, I don't think so.
By the way Mike, has Super Chips ever tested a truck and trailer like mine to see if they really help it on pulling a camping trailer, with the proper setup?

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fordyfour

2000 4X2 Lariat S/C
5.4,3.55 Ls
True duals, K&N Filter
Super White Headlamps

 

Mike wrote:
"Actually, the 4R70W tranmission is just fine, I'm on my 4th vehicle equipped with it. It stands up to towing just fine in my experience, and will withstand considerably more power. I'm running 320 hp into mine behind a DOHC 4.6 motor" [snip]

Withstand considerably more power than what? And how has your experience shown it to compare to the E4OD (which *is* what is in my California-version F-150)? And how heavy a load do you tow, and how often? (Questions, questions, questions...:-) !

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Black '99 Flareside
Lariat, striping removed
5.4L, E4OD, 4x4, 3.55 LS
Towing pkg, Trans temp
Rhino liner; lid

 

Hold on here guys, I'm not going to get into a silly argument over this. Of course the 4R70W is not as heavy-duty a transmission as the 4R100, that doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand. The 4R70W has been using in everything from Thunderbirds, Lincolns, etc. all the way up to 5000+lb. 4X4 F-150's. I've seen them live long lives supercharged in very heavy 4X4 F-150's, and I've seen them fail behind much lighter T-birds with less torque & loading, etc.

I personally believe that Ford has overrated the towing capacity of some of these vehicles, particularly with the 4.6 engine. Every single day, I get calls from people who were sold a 4.6 F-150 and told it will tow 7000 lbs. just fine, and I do not agree with that at all. Sure, you can pull it, but the vehicle really isn't up to it, and it shows. I personally believe that anything over 5000 lbs. behind a 4.6 in the F-150 is just too much for any kind of decent mileage and driveability.

I have had customers with *supercharged* F-150's with the 4R70W, who tow heavy loads (6000-7000 lbs) with them, and they live just fine. I have also seen 4.6 F-150's with the 4R70W that *don't* live long, due to them being allowed to cycle in and out of Overdrive in rapid succession while towing a heavy load up a grade. And, I've seen just about everything in between.

Also, when you talk about the 4R100 in vaunted terms, you might want to remember that Ford has had problems with that transmission as well, very serious problems, that caused them to have to completely redesign the valve body due to "shift flare" problems. My point being, there isn't a transmission Ford has built that hasn't had some type of problem in some type of situation, given all the various types of usage they see. And no, I'm not saying that this is the way things should be, either, of course not.

I don't want there to be any misunderstanding here, I know you guys know your vehicles. We see far more of them, in all types of scenarios.

The Superchip is not a panacea to cure all automatic transmission ills, not by a longshot. However, what it will do is help the automatic transmissions to live longer, due to reduced slippage, and less heat generated in all types of operation. Over the lifetime of a transmission, it adds up.

If anyone has any questions about this, please feel free to give us a call.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com



[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-13-2000).]

 

Dear Fordyfour,

OK, you asked the question, would I be PO'd if I were told that I was getting a 4R100, and got the 4R70W instead? If I was told that by anyone at the dealership I bought it from, sure I'd be PO'd, you bet! I'm very sorry to hear that somebody did that to you. Do you think it was because of somebody's inexperience there at the dealership, that led them to say something they turned out to be wrong about by innocent mistake, or was this something that actually influenced your buying decision? I ask simply because a mistake is a mistake, and we all make them everyday, myself certainly included! But if you were told this as an enticement to get you to buy that vehicle, then there is no excuse for that, and you bet, I'd be more than a little upset! I hope it works out OK for you, to say the least.

The 4R70W has had numerous problems, and changes that have resulted from those problems. For example, that transmission as installed in the MN12 platform (all Lincoln Mark 8's and '94& later V-89 Thunderbirds) had problems primarily due to the transmission fluid not being properly cooled. Left unchecked, this can do a lot of damage, glazing clutch packs, and in some cases, it can actually warp the valve body, ruin the shift solonoids, and other parts too. Internally, Ford called this valve body warpage on the 4R70W the "potato chip effect". Nice of them to have a name for it, eh? For the 1996 model year, they got this fixed pretty much, and it also got a whole new valve body, as well as numerous updates to the solonoids themselves. In my current 4R70W, I'm running the 1997 Thunderbird valve body & solonoids, as they are the latest updates for that tranny in my vehicle.

If you are interested, there is a web site that has a very detailed technical article on the 4R70W, that you might want to check out. It's on a website at: www.MN12performance.com

Good luck with your truck,

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Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com