Well.... I just installed my microtuner today, on my 03 Supercrew 5.4 4X4. I set it for "Performance", left all custom tuning alone, except for the tires, I adjusted it for my 33's. I ran my truck out of the 87 octane earlier this week, and filled it with 91. First thing I noticed was the firm crisp shifts, (reminded me of my 98 Mustang, that I put a shift kit in), but I did not notice ANY performance increase. Not a real scientific way (buttometer). My other test is not real accurate but... I would pull out on to the highway, and a ways up the road is a sign, I would hit 70mph at that sign, everytime!! I have done that run at least a dozen times. With the new tune installed, I again hit 70mph. Now, im not expecting to hit 80mph, but I was hoping to see 73+. I know there are critics that say dyno it!! But for some of us that live in remote places, a dyno is a long road trip away, and all we can rely on is what it "feels" like before and after. So, does having my speedo corrected, and firmer shifts justify 3+bills? Im not sure at this point.
I have a Snap-On scan tool, so having it pull DTC's doesnt matter to me. Any others with the same? I currently have the K&N FIPK, Magnaflow stainless muffler. I have only driven it for 50 miles or so, hopefully it will get better.

 

Sounds like you are testing with the Countryman's Dyno. Mine is setup so I hit 65 without the tune. I put the tuner on my 2002 Screw lastnight also. I go 67mph. I "feel" a substantial difference in the amount of felt power in the 2000 to 3500 RPM range where I drive mostly anyway. Fells like I have quicker acceleration now. I programmed for performance-towing and selected allof the flashing "superchips" settings for transmission. some here aresaying you need 100 to several hundred miles for the program to work totally. Hoping MikeT will comment on your post or mine. I feel , so far, so good. Jon

 

To clarify, the MPH test was done before I changed the tire size. I changed the tires (31.25inches measured from the ground to the highest spot), I then hit 73-74 MPH, which was due to the tire correction. Stupid me, I of course did not read the directions, and at first I set it at 32.5 inches (I have 33X12.50-17's), and I hit 80MPH... Im sure Mike has some ideas, and suggestions...
Shawn

 

Hi Haku,

If you had done both the before & after with the same size tires, you certainly would have gained more speed in the same distance once you allowed enough miles & drive cycles (about 350-500 miles) for the PCM to adapt & learn it's new programming.

However, that is assuming of course (and this virtually never happens) that both "tests" were actually done at the *exact* same ambient temperature, humidity and barometric pressure - but almost nobody ever does that, they almost always run at different times and then try to compare the 2 times (or speeds, etc.), and that always skews the results, making them basically worthless - that can make them better than they should be, or make them worse, it works both ways - in short, you cannot ever compare ET's or speeds run at different times. For any accuracy, you have to do a properly controlled before & after format under the same atmospheric conditions, or use correction factors (which aren't always particularly accurate, either, but it's better than uncorrected).

When we dyno-test, we typically gain at least another 10 HP or more (sometimes 20 HP) once we've got 350-500 miles after making the tuning change, as compared to what happens *immediately* after the program change - though we always see an immediate power gain, the *maximum* gain still takes a few hundred miles and some drive cycles for the PCM to get the motor up to it's proper power gain.

Speaking of installing taller tires.................When you install taller tires, you are actually *reducing* the amount of power that gets to the ground, and significantly - the engine is turning fewer rpms for any given speed too, which is why you need to do a gear ratio change to get the engine back up into it's power band in order to get the performance it's capable of - tires labeled as "33's" generally need at least a 4.10 gear ratio to get the motor back up into it's power band. With taller tires not only do you lose significant torque multiplication, you also do not get the motor up into the power band as quickly, so it's a real double-whammy to performance.

I'd suggest giving me a call so we can go over this properly, if you like.

Good luck!

 

I understand all of the tests, I do hope it does get better. I have had the 33's on it for 5k, and with 3.73 gears, its not really that bad. On a good note, maybe why im not seeing more speed... Before, my truck would shift at 4800 rpm (WOT) now it shifts at 5200 rpm, for the last 200rpms it seems to peeter out, and when it finally shifts, you can feel the power again. Im sure I can change it with the Microtuner, I guess I will have to read more, and play around. Also, does my truck fall into the "never open loop"? If so, does the microtuner fix that? Thanks Mike!!

Shawn

 

Hi Shawn,

OK, so you already understand all of that - great! - & my apologies if my last post was redundant for you!

With the 3.73's you can tolerate the 33's better than with the factory 3.08 or 3.55 gearing, of course - for me, I'd do the gear change so the engine can get back up into it's power band properly, as that can also affect when it can get into open loop in some codes - but this is of course up to you. If you feel your current performance is good enough for your needs, then you can skip the expense of a gear change - on the 2WD's a gear ratio change isn't expensive, maybe $400-$500 with parts and labor total (not including an upgrade to limited slip if it doesn't have that from the factory) - but on a 4WD you have to do both differentials (front & rear), and the front is a reverse 8.8, so it usually costs about $1400 or more to have a good shop do a gear ratio change on a 4X4 F-150..............so while it's cheap on a 4x2, it's very expensive on a 4x4!

Now with regard to your shift points - once the speedometer error is corrected, that will also correct any shift point deficits that resulted from the speedo being off (from either a gear ratio and/or a tire size change), and should make it shift at roughly about the same rpm's as it did with the stock size tires - however, the reality is that with the Superchips tuning installed (and it has to be installed to allow you to access the speedo correction functions), then those WOT upshift points are higher anyway - so it will upshift at full-throttle a few hundred rpm higher than stock. That 5200 rpm you mentioned sounds about right - a 5200 rpm WOT upshift point is fine for the 1-2 & the 2-3, I would not let the 3-4 go that high - we recommend not more than 4800 rpm for the WOT 3-4 upshift to help the tranny live - the 4R70's don't like a lot of higher-powered WOT 3-4 upshifts.

With regard to answering your question about is your truck one of the ones that can't get up into open loop, I'll need to know it's computer code to be able to answer that. A number of the 2003's *do* have that problem (some in each model year do), and all of the LGA series of codes in the 2003's do - they're *horrible* from the factory, requiring 189% ve (calculated load) to go open loop, which it couldn't hit even with a 12 PSI supercharger! And when that happens, that means the vehicle owner isn't even getting the STOCK rated power, it's usually about 30 HP less! Which also means we can pick up a boatload more power doing a custom tune.

So check the computer code of your truck and let me know what it is - you'll find that code by opening the front passenger-side door, then look in the front part of the door frame, in the general area of the door hinges - somewhere there you should see a small sticker that will have 3 letters followed by 1 number on it - like LGA1 or LGA2, for example, and there are many different codes - anyway, let me know what code you find and then I can tell you exactly what the deal is.

One last point - in our *custom* tunes, we can deliver even more power and performance than you can get from the Micro Tuner if the customer wants to wring more performance out of the vehicle - we don't have the same concerns in custom tunes that we have to have in the "standard" tuning like in the Micro Tuners, so we can do things in our custom tunes that Superchips will not do to all trucks in the Micro Tuner, for example.

Once you find your code, if you want to give me a call I can not only answer that question for you, but also go over with you just exactly what to do about that and how much more power we can give you by doing a custom tune, etc., if you like.

Have fun,

 

Yep, just what I figured. LGA1
Watching my scan tool during wot, my truck would stay in closed loop. Bummer. As far as the gears, Im a mechanic by trade, so it would be somewhat cheap for me to do, but with the 33's and towing my boat (stock tune) it would rarley go out of OD, so I would rather not mess with them. Im saving up for a Procharger, so when I get that, I will go with a custom tune. So, hopefully I will get some remote starts installed (I also have a side buisness installing those).. and my wife wont let me spend any money on my truck unless its from my remote start installs
Thanks again Mike,
What is the cost of a custom tune (no dyno results available) for my truck once the Procharger is installed? Will be stock, FMU, no larger injectors, stock MAF. If you would rather email me with the cost that is fine.

ip3@centurytel.net

Shawn

 

Hi Shawn,

Yeah, I just took another look at the LGA1 code, and just like the other LGAx codes, it cannot get into open loop as it requires 189% ve (calculated load) - which cannot be achieved even with a 12 PSI blower - most normally aspirated engines don't get much over 90-95%, with a few at 100-103% or so. Even a factory supercharged Lightning can't hit 160% without a pulley change to up the stock 8 PSI boost level! With a custom tune to fix that, we can give you another 25-35 HP at the wheels.

For pricing on any of our products & services that are not shown on our web site, you'll need to call us - it is against the rules here for us to discuss any specific parts or services pricing, & thanks in advance for your understanding on that.

Also, what we charge for our custom tuning depends on just how much work we actually have to do in each situation - so that is quoted on a case-by-case basis, by talking with the customer in detail about their configuration, how the vehicle is going to be used, the dyno data that is required to actually be able to do a proper supercharger tune, etc. - with our tunes, you don't have to re-tune for changes in boost pressure, and none of the separate "cold weather" & a different tune for "hot weather" as some tuners claim is necessary - it's not. The vehicle should be able to run on the same tune regardless of ambient temperature and boost levels, if it's done right.

We have 24 hr. voicemail, so if your schedule doesn't allow you to call us during our normal business hours, then you can always just leave us a voicemail with your name & number and we'll be happy to call you back & get you all the info you'll need. Thanks!

And good luck with your remote start side-business - you know, for many of us, if we didn't have our wives to keep us in check with our financial realities, we might have a wicked-quick 10 or 11-second 1/4 mile truck, but no driveway to put it in! Back in the 70's, I actually drove a high-9 second daily driver (well, 10.20's on L60-15's, 9.80's on the slicks) - but could barely afford to put gas in it - been there, done that - thank God for my wife!

Talk to you soon,

 

Mike said:
"Yeah, I just took another look at the LGA1 code, and just like the other LGAx codes, it cannot get into open loop as it requires 189% ve (calculated load) - which cannot be achieved even with a 12 PSI blower - most normally aspirated engines don't get much over 90-95%, with a few at 100-103% or so. Even a factory supercharged Lightning can't hit 160% without a pulley change to up the stock 8 PSI boost level! With a custom tune to fix that, we can give you another 25-35 HP at the wheels."


I have the LGA2 code on my 03 SCrew and it ran like a pig. I was ready to get rid of it the first month. Wouldn't hardly pull my 5X10 trailer with a motorcycle up a hill at hi-way speeds without downshifting and got as low as 9 mpg doing it.

I purchased a Superchips 1715 tuner and it helped a lot. More power and better mileage.

Can someone tell me whether the 1715 completely addresses the closed loop problem with this code or is the custom tuning route the only way to completely correct the problem?

 

In addition to Mr. Wiggles question, I would like to know
if the increase of another 25-35 HP at the wheels is above what the 1715 alone will achieve. I have the LGA2 code and use the 1715 and tow a boat. Would I need the 1715 and the special tune to achieve max HP gains or just the special tune?

Final question: Is the open/closed loop issue only relevant at full throttle. If so, is my performance still affected; and if so by how much. I rarely go full throttle?

 

Hi Wiggles & Don,

Yes, the Micro Tuner takes care of those open-loop issues in the F-150's - once in a while we'll find one that may not go into open loop quite as quick as another, but even that is relatively rare, and it has to be remembered that trucks *should* take longer to transition to open loop than cars - they're *trucks*, and have completely different design purposes and usages.

The quicker we make them transition over into open loop, the worse fuel mileage you're going to get when you use anything more than about 1/3 to maybe 1/2 throttle when towing, for example - and anytime someone is towing with these trucks, they are going to spend a good bit of time at more than just light throttle. It's a matter of proper tuning for the type of vehicle and it's design usages.

Of course, in a custom tune, we can tune them any way the customer wants (within reason & the laws of physics), so if someone cares only about performance and to heck with fuel mileage and towing, we can make them even more responsive by tuning them in a different manner - like we'd tune a musclecar.

And no, tuning is not some endless well of power you can go back to again and again any time you want more power. You are not going to get 30 HP from a Micro Tuner and then *another* 30 HP on top of the first 30 HP by a custom tune for a total of a 60 HP gain, or a 50 HP gain or even a 45 HP gain - that will not happen in these non-SVT trucks. To be clear, the *only* way 30+Hp gains are possible via tuning alone on a non-supercharged 1997-2003 F-150 is if that truck can't go open loop from the factory - if that happens, then sure, we can easily get solid 30+ HP gains, sometimes even 35 HP or a bit more - otherwise it's going to be anywhere from about 8 HP gain on 87 octane to about 25-28 HP or so on premium in the Micro Tuner.

Just very briefly............In a properly tuned street-driven vehicle, meaning a true "musclecar" like the 2003 & up supercharged Cobra, or a Mustang GT, etc., ideally it should transition over into open loop at not more than about 550 TP and within a few seconds after going to full-throttle, assuming all the other required parameters are met. In these trucks, more time to go open loop should be allowed so as to keep from ruining fuel mileage when towing or going up long grades, etc. It's a matter of proper tuning for the type of vehicle and it's normal usages.

Have fun,

 

Mike said:
"To be clear, the *only* way 30+Hp gains are possible via tuning alone on a non-supercharged 1997-2003 F-150 is if that truck can't go open loop from the factory - if that happens, then sure, we can easily get solid 30+ HP gains, sometimes even 35 HP or a bit more - otherwise it's going to be anywhere from about 8 HP gain on 87 octane to about 25-28 HP or so on premium in the Micro Tuner. "

So what are the true approximate HP/torque gains for one of the LGAx trucks that don't go open loop running the 1715 on the tow/perf and the perf settings?

I'm also running a SI/DO Magnaflow exhaust and an AFE filter in the stock housing with a 3" inlet through the fender well.........