2004 F150 Superchip Question
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2004 F150 Superchip Question for Mike Troyer
I have a question about the performance gains from chipping your truck. I am particularly interested in the 2004 5.4L, so maybe Mike would be the ideal source for this question.
It looks like the baseline for the HP deltas was a stock 5.4L laying down 222HP at the wheels.
Using 87 octane gasoline you add 13HP with the tuning.
Using 93 octane, you were able to get 24HP over base.
When you measure the delta using 93 octane gasoline, do you still use the the original baseline of 222HP? Isn't this baseline measured using 87 octane gas? Did you measure the base (non tuned) HP using 93 octane?
Thanks, I am trying to understand how the measurements were taken.
DJ
It looks like the baseline for the HP deltas was a stock 5.4L laying down 222HP at the wheels.
Using 87 octane gasoline you add 13HP with the tuning.
Using 93 octane, you were able to get 24HP over base.
When you measure the delta using 93 octane gasoline, do you still use the the original baseline of 222HP? Isn't this baseline measured using 87 octane gas? Did you measure the base (non tuned) HP using 93 octane?
Thanks, I am trying to understand how the measurements were taken.
DJ
Last edited by FX4project; Jan 13, 2004 at 07:13 PM.
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Hi fellas,
For anything detailed (like dyno procedures, for example) you'll generally need to call us, as it takes 100-200 times longer to sit down & type that all out in proper detail as compared to talking on the phone. We don't get paid to type, so I answer questions here as and when I have the time - something like this requires a more detailed answer than can be done via typing, so for details figure that you'll usually need to call us
Briefly...............
We don't just tune 1 vehicle when we do those R&D sessions, we use multiple vehicles, and typically multiple sessions, too. In the case of the tuning R&D we wrapped up just before Christmas, we had several identical 2004 3-valve 5.4 F-150's - one had 87 octane only for the duration, another only had 93 octane for the duration, and one started on 87, ran that completely out & then switched over to 93 octane.
You made a good point in that in many cases, both the before & after are done on premium gas, and that can sometimes skew the readings - higher octane takes longer to initiate combustion (even though the speed at which the flame front propagates itself across the combustion chamber is relatively the same, it takes longer in degrees of crankshaft rotation to *ignite* the higher octane mixture), thus you can actually make *less* power running premium gas on the factory program in some cases - in fact, in many model years of the 1997-2003 F-150, the owners manual specifically says *not* to use premium gas because it can cause loss of power, fuel mileage, and check engine lights, etc. On the factory tune running premium gas, many times the full A/F mixture just doesn't have enough time to burn, thus you lose power & mileage. And then sometimes under ideal conditions, (with planets all aligned, etc.) you'll maybe even pick up a coupla-few HP running premium on the factory tune in the F-150 - we've seen both extremes over the years.
In the case of the 2004 5.4 motor, it made within 3 HP regardless of octane level on the stock factory tune, and that was on a very accurate eddy current chassis dyno we've used numerous times in the past, consistent technique, etc. Now we did not have time to really test for fuel mileage results running premium on the factory tune, as that was not the purpose of those sessions. But basically, as usual, running anything more than 87 octane on the factory tune was a waste of money in terms of power on the dyno & seat of the pants driveability.
The bottom line is yes, it is important, in the interest of best possible accuracy, to do the "before" on 87 octane, and only the "after" on premium, when we're talking about comparing stock power to tuned-for-premium power levels - you bet!
There are other issues as well - for example, miles & drive cycles. We've seen it make 10 HP difference & more between doing pulls right after tuning versus the power made a few hundred miles later on that same tune, on the same dyno. There are numerous other things that can and will skew results too, which is just one of may reasons why these R&D sessions can be long & grueling, and sometimes even take months depending on just what we're trying to do or learn, etc - this last round of sessions was just that, the last, as there had been a number before that on the 2004 5.4 F-150, then we wrapped up the last sessions just before Christmas.
I think that should answer your basic question - thanks for your post & good luck!
For anything detailed (like dyno procedures, for example) you'll generally need to call us, as it takes 100-200 times longer to sit down & type that all out in proper detail as compared to talking on the phone. We don't get paid to type, so I answer questions here as and when I have the time - something like this requires a more detailed answer than can be done via typing, so for details figure that you'll usually need to call us
Briefly...............
We don't just tune 1 vehicle when we do those R&D sessions, we use multiple vehicles, and typically multiple sessions, too. In the case of the tuning R&D we wrapped up just before Christmas, we had several identical 2004 3-valve 5.4 F-150's - one had 87 octane only for the duration, another only had 93 octane for the duration, and one started on 87, ran that completely out & then switched over to 93 octane.
You made a good point in that in many cases, both the before & after are done on premium gas, and that can sometimes skew the readings - higher octane takes longer to initiate combustion (even though the speed at which the flame front propagates itself across the combustion chamber is relatively the same, it takes longer in degrees of crankshaft rotation to *ignite* the higher octane mixture), thus you can actually make *less* power running premium gas on the factory program in some cases - in fact, in many model years of the 1997-2003 F-150, the owners manual specifically says *not* to use premium gas because it can cause loss of power, fuel mileage, and check engine lights, etc. On the factory tune running premium gas, many times the full A/F mixture just doesn't have enough time to burn, thus you lose power & mileage. And then sometimes under ideal conditions, (with planets all aligned, etc.) you'll maybe even pick up a coupla-few HP running premium on the factory tune in the F-150 - we've seen both extremes over the years.
In the case of the 2004 5.4 motor, it made within 3 HP regardless of octane level on the stock factory tune, and that was on a very accurate eddy current chassis dyno we've used numerous times in the past, consistent technique, etc. Now we did not have time to really test for fuel mileage results running premium on the factory tune, as that was not the purpose of those sessions. But basically, as usual, running anything more than 87 octane on the factory tune was a waste of money in terms of power on the dyno & seat of the pants driveability.
The bottom line is yes, it is important, in the interest of best possible accuracy, to do the "before" on 87 octane, and only the "after" on premium, when we're talking about comparing stock power to tuned-for-premium power levels - you bet!
There are other issues as well - for example, miles & drive cycles. We've seen it make 10 HP difference & more between doing pulls right after tuning versus the power made a few hundred miles later on that same tune, on the same dyno. There are numerous other things that can and will skew results too, which is just one of may reasons why these R&D sessions can be long & grueling, and sometimes even take months depending on just what we're trying to do or learn, etc - this last round of sessions was just that, the last, as there had been a number before that on the 2004 5.4 F-150, then we wrapped up the last sessions just before Christmas.
I think that should answer your basic question - thanks for your post & good luck!
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