Well, we took the tuner out, and still had the problem. Took it to the Ford shop and they put a new converter in. I drove it 3 mi and it slipped into neutral again and died. Could it be the computer? It does this every time it's humid.

 

Are you back to the original tuning? Did it slip then? If yes, why would you believe it was the computer?

Use the methodology of divide and conquer. Only troubleshoot the problem by modifying one thing at a time holding all other variables constant.

 

phurley, phurley, phurley. C'mon man. Read the posts well before you reply.

Yes, mrslarryb went back to original tuning and the problem still existed.

mrslarryb *did* change one thing at a time, as I read the post, and the problem still existed.

mrslarryb thinks it may be the computer because, after removing the SC programming as well as having the TQ replaced, the problem still existed.

From your post, I think you believe the "Computer" mrslarryb mentioned is the MicroTuner. The "computer" is not the MicroTuner. The "computer" (ECM, or PCM) controls the transmission's operation as well as the engine's operation. The "computer" is factory supplied on every vehicle and absolutely necessary for any late-model vehicle. The "Computer"'s software (programming) is what you are modifying when you use the MicroTuner.

Hope this helps.

 

mrslarryb.............
From just what you have posted, I would guess you are correct that the ECM may be the problem. I am surprised, though, that the Ford "Shop" (I am assuming you mean the dealer's service department) didn't correct your problem at your first visit. They have the means to determine a vehicles ailments and should have diagnosed the problem, if they are a competent factory trained group of technicians.

I hope you get your truck's problem nailed down and repaired soon so that you can enjoy your ride!

 

Actually, I rather doubt this has anything to do with the PCM at all based on the symptoms - these are very specific symptoms he's reporting, and symptoms that the 4R70W transmission is in fact well known for in the industry - as I mentioned before, it's far more likely to be the common problem of failing shift solenoids and/or a valve body problem - warpage, etc. Ford calls valve body warpage problems the "potato chip effect" internally.

The shift solenoids have been thru numerous revisions in the 4r70W, and for years guys at the Livonia transmission plant complained about the variances in the quality of raw materials coming in the door - that has since improved quite a bit from what we hear, but there are plenty of these trannies out there with these kinds of problems, and most of it is shift solenoid related.

All in all, this points right to the normal 4R70W culprits - shift solenoids/valve body.

I have had this exact same problem in one of my 4R70W's, as well as having customers with this same problem in bone-stock trim. And as usual, in my case it was the shift solenoids and the valve body, just as it usually is with customers who come to us complaining of those symptoms before they've done even the first modification. In my case, after going thru 3 different dealership service departments with not one of them making a proper diagnosis under warranty (nowadays more dealerships know about this, 3 years ago many didn't), I finally found the real problem by examining aftermarket TSB's at Alldata (www.alldata.com - you'll have to buy the CD to get anything more than just the title of the TSB) - it was in an *aftermarket* TSB, not a Ford TSB - this was 3 years ago - anyway, I found the problem, replaced the complete valve body & shift solenoids and no more false neutral, problem solved. I was also compensated for my repair expenses by Ford, since they failed to fix it under warranty.

Some of the symptoms that can be exhibited by failed or failing shift solenoids are thumping sounds sometimes just before shifts (the thumping sound is actually being transmitted up thru the floorboard), going up into Neutral inappropriately with the engine revving up, then banging down into gear, etc.

The bottom line is the vehicle is apparently being serviced (they replaced the torque converter to no avail, hopefully they'll get to the solenoids), so let's just hope his dealership gets this taken care of properly for the owner.

 

Now see...just when I think I am "Ford-Truck-savvy", Mike comes along to burst my bubble!

mrslarryb........... refer to Mike's post for your information, not mine. He is the ECM/drivetrain expert around here and knows our trucks very well.

Thanks Mike , for explaining the possible cause for the symptoms as only you can. It is good info for us all.

 

Hi RebelYell,

Sorry my friend, didn't mean to "burst your bubble" at all.

The reality is, we don't know what his problem is at this point - it may turn out to have nothing to do with the shift solenoids or the valve body!

I mention those 2 areas just because they are known problem areas that can produce those exact same symptoms - I've been thru it & so have others I know. It's also something that as of a few years ago, numerous dealerships just weren't doing a very good job of diagnosing properly - I personally went thru 3 of them and none of them had a clue - and that's after each consulted Livonia! So I feel the vehicle owner needs to know about this, as it's the most likely place to *begin* the troubleshooting, where there are known problems that produce the exact same symptoms - that's all.

Heck, we just want to see the darn thing fixed so he can properly enjoy his vehicle!

 

You got that right! I hope he/she gets it corrected soon and with little inconvenience.

 

Oops, that's right - they did use the name "mrslarryb," so we might be talking to a lady!

Well, regardless of gender, let's hope he/she gets it taken care of OK.

 

FINALLY got my truck figured out. The Ford dealer put in a new idle assembly, after the torque converter and after 24 hrs, my truck slipped into neutral again at 80mi per hr. I took it back to them very mad and said keep it untill it's fixed. It was like they didn't trust my description of what was happening and just kept replacing things. The tech took my truck onto the highway and it did it's thing and he freaked out, called a tow truck. (I always had to feather it to get it back in gear). Sure enough it was the computer and they have one on the way. So if you see a silver F150 with a tuned chip and flowmaster (and a radar detector) pass you on I-44, it'll be me.

 

Hi mrslarryb,

Thanks very much for dropping back by to let us know what's going on currently........

You mean that this is something that *only* happens at 80 mph? If so, then perhaps it could be the PCM, but from the previous description of symptoms I'd have bet it was the shift solenoids.

For your sake & hoping for less aggravation to you, I sure hope that does the trick so you can get back to enjoying your vehicle properly!

Good luck mrslarryb, & please do drop back by to fill us in on the results whenever you can.

 

We'll they had my truck for over a week waiting for the pcm and I drove it twice. The second time, on my way to work this am, it slammed into neutral and died. WHILE I WAS IN THE OUTSIDE LANE ON THE TURNPIKE. I am happy to say that the 18-wheeler with his horn blasting did not hit me. I wish I lived where you are so I could bring my truck to you. This truck was a Hertz rental and luckily is still covered by their warranty, although the dealer said the pcm was under Ford warranty. Makes me wonder if they know about ALLDATA.

 

Is this after the new PCM was installed?

 

Yes, Prestige Ford in Edmond OK , first said it was my torque converter, the second time they said it was my idle assembly, then they said it was my PCM, today it nearly got me killed. My husband said at the begining it was the transmission, but it is stll under warrenty and they get $76.00 dollars an hour.

 

Hi Mrs. Larry B.,

OK, well fellas, that should make it clear, we *are* talking to a lady - just like the screen name says!

Thanks for posting back here and letting us know that the new PCM did *not* take care of this problem. I didn't think it would, that isn't the problem.

The problem is the transmission - specifically, the shift solenoids, and it would be a good idea to just replace the entire valve body with new shift solenoids - I'd bet $1 that will fix the problem.

I'm so sorry to hear you are going thru all of this - it it makes you feel any better, I went thru this exact same situation with one of our vehicles - that was actually the beginning of me being able to really dig into this and find the actual problem, so we could get to the solution - I went thru 3 Ford/Lincoln dealers, not one of whom could properly diagnose it. Until I found the Alldata info - which is *aftermarket*, so I found this in an aftermarket TSB like we we're talking about before - not in a Ford TSB, and not even the Livonia transmission plant could tell any of the dealers what the problem might be - I had to find all of that out on my own.

Ask them to have a Ford Zone Representative come out to inspect & drive the vehicle, and tell that Zone Rep about the aftermarket TSB's about the shift solenoids - you can also mention the "potato chip effect" on the valve body warping problem, too.

Also, before anything else actually, drop by www.alldata.com and *order* the CD-ROM from them that has all the TSB's for your exact vehicle - that way you get the entire text, and not just the TSB titles - and show *that* info to the Zone Rep, who should have no problems authorizing replacement of the complete valve body assembly to INCLUDE new shift solenoids. It's either that or a new transmission, nothing else is going to fix this - and they *hate* someone bringing information from the Internet, so get the Alldata CD for your vehicle so you have this info independently.

I wish we could help you more with this, but all we can do from here is tell you what the problem is - and remember the lemon laws, too - if that vehicle is still under it's new vehicle warranty and has been back to the dealer 3 times for the same problem with no resolution or fix - BINGO, in most states that's a "LEMON" and they have to buy it back, so check your state laws on that, too, as you may very well be able to force them to buy back the vehicle! Tell them to fix it right or buy it back if it's under it's original 36/36 new vehicle warranty - tell them they have only 1 last chance or buy it back.

I would *insist* on the Ford factory "Zone Rep." coming out and inspecting and driving the vehicle, and have that Alldata CD with you when you meet that person at the dealership.

I wish you well,