I was kicking the idea around the other day of getting nitrous, but I then began to wonder if I could still use my MicroTuner if I had nitrous. SO that is my question, can I run Nitrous on my truck and still use the MicroTuner??? I really like the way the Tuner makes the truck run with the extra power and especially the shifting. Just wondering if this can be done. Any info would be great.

 

Hi josho66,

NO CAN DO!!!

I'm deliberately emphatic about that, in the hopes that NOBODY will ever try doing that, & thanks ever so much for having the foresight to ask & check that out before jumping in & doing it.

The tuning in the Micro Tuner is designed for stock to relatively lightly-modded vehicles. You can do things like an intake kit, cat-back exhaust system, bigger throttle body, electric fans & underdrive pulleys.

But for things like superchargers (or increasing boost via pulleys in a factory supercharger, as in the Lightnings & Harleys), changing the MAF, larger injectors, ported cylinder heads, camshaft changes, and nitrous oxide, you MUST have custom tuning if you want to use any kind of performance program or chip.

And with nitrous, you need to use our 2-program Superchip Flip Chip, so you have 1 program tuning correctly for the nitrous, and the other program for when the nitrous isn't being used. You can't use the same performance program for both with and without nitrous.

Nitrous is injected into the motor, which, when combusted, releases huge amounts of additional oxygen into the combustion chamber. Cylinder pressures increase dramatically and instantly, requiring a radically different tune than what's in the Micro Tuner. The exact changes required depend on whether it's a wet or dry nitrous kit, size of the shot, etc., but in general, fueling, timing, etc., as well as load tables & other aspects all need significant changes to accommodate that properly. There are some nitrous kits that you can use on the stock factory program, but you cannot use ANY amount of nitrous with any "standard" performance chip/tuner.

Bottom line? Nitrous can be a lot of fun if you don't mind paying $40 each time to recharge a 10# bottle (that's average these days), just make sure you either REMOVE that Micro Tuner tuning before using the nitrous, or best case, have us make you a 2-program Flip Chip with the proper performance tuning for use both with and without the nitrous, so you get the benefits of the Superchips tuning *all* the time.

Give us a call to go over this in detail,

 

First I have a side note:

Damn, you always amaze me at the time you spend on explaining things to people, it is great. You are so knowledgeable and for those like me that don't know tons of info.


Moving on:

After reading your post, pricing kits, and reading many other posts I am not going to get a kit. I like the MicroTuner way to much. The performance and shifting increases are great and I don't want to give that up.

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Hi Josho66,

You're more than welcome, of course, and there are no doubt plenty of other areas where I don't have your knowledge.

I don't mean to discourage anyone from using nitrous oxide, by the way, as it can be used successfully and deliver large (albeit temporary) power gains. It's just another one of those things that has to be done with proper knowledge/advice so the motor doesn't get wounded.

Nitrous kit pricing varies widely, and we recommend using "wet" kits, always, as they are much more tunable & generally safer in the hands of those just getting started with NO2.

There are numerous ways to achieve the power levels & performance you want to get to, nitrous is just one of them. Personally, I'm an "all throttle, no bottle" kinda guy, as I want my power available *all* the time, made by the motor and accomplished by knowledge, talent & sweat, rather than HP in a bottle. Now that is an admittedly "purist" point of view, and one that certainly is not shared by all. The only thing that *really* matters is the performance you get & keeping the motor in one piece, and at some point we'll probably put nitrous kits up on our web site.

There are plenty of things you can do to increase power further without going to nitrous, and if at some point in the future you ever want to go over your vehicle in detail to map out exactly what to do to take your performance further in the most cost-effective manner, we're just a phone call away.

Thanks for your post & have fun,

 

Just to clarify I didn't mean to come off as I thought I had more knowledge than you in anything. I was trying to say it is nice to have someone here with as much knowledge as you. I have about none excepts for basics and people like you and others on this site are a hugh help to people like me.

Thanks.

 

I dont know how the superchips programer works, but the Hypertec programmer you can use the shift point, and firmness change ability but not the engine tunning. All the chips and tuners do is add abit more timming, which is way they requirer 93 octane, along with changing a couple of other sensor maps to provide the absolute best performance out of what the factory supplied equipment can provide. As most of you know N2O requiers less timming which is why the chips wont work, unless like Mike T. said, the flip chip which is programed to pull timming away when in the fliped mod.

Another thing that hekps is that these trucks drop timming, and trans. line pressure to make those long soft shifts even at wide open throttle. I found out first hand that the drop in timming between the 1st-2nd shift on a 125 shot, when the timming come back in full would back fire through the intake every time. I dont know if the programmer tricks the ECM into not retarding between shifts or what but since the HT programmer has been put on I've had no problems.

I have since looking into the spark plug issue pulled the nitrous off the truck and returned the HyperT. to my buddy. I will switch over to the MicroTunner because it does look like a much better product then the WOT activated HyperT. just waiting for the money to get it.

But case in point if you can use the Micro tunner to set up the trans for firmer, and quicker shifts without adding the engine tune, that will easyily support a 80 dry shot running the factory program with 2 bottles of Blue NOS octane booster in about 8-10 gals. of fuel. It was good for a 9.1's at 76-80mph 1/8

 

Hi Josho66,

No worries my friend, & I didn't take it that way or think anything like that at all. I'm a factual kinda cat, & while my knowledge is OK in this field of performance, there are many people right here, including yourself no doubt, that have knowledge in other areas where I don't even know that I don't have a clue!

The bottom line is, everybody's good at something, and even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I often use the analogy that while I have decades of experience & thus know a fair amount about performance, I'd be just as lost trying to perform a root canal as my dentist would be trying to tune my truck.

Thanks for your post & have fun,

 

Thanks for your post back, and by no means was I trying to jump in on your cookie so to speak. I just wanted to explain an option that is open if some else is willing to take it. I'm still not 100% sure of the effects that sulfer has on catylatic converters, even though there is not much added in to a bottle of nitrous I would like to know how it affects the ceramic mesh in a cat. Im a nitrous guy all the way, but I am just now getting into using it on a late model computer controlled automobles, I've used it for years on my racecar, but never really wanted it on my every day driver till recently.

However, as I said before in my other reply I just couldnt see upping cyl. pressures with the plug problem that seems to be happening with the tritons. So when I can spare the money I would like the micro tuner.

 

Hi Bottlefed,

I'm not sure exactly who your last post was for, but just in case it was to me...................

I really can't speak intelligently to the aspects of the effect of the sulfur in nitrous oxide on the Ford factory catalytic converters in these F-150's. Sure, the sulfur is there, and there has been a lot of talk of increased sulfur content in racing-grade nitrous formulation, as I'm sure you already know. I don't use nitrous myself, and most of the customers we have using it are also running aftermarket high-flow cats, and the units we use (Magnaflow) have an excellent substrate & stand up to a good bit of abuse, more than factory cats generally do. So all in all, we don't see any significant problems in this regard. That's not to say it isn't a factor, just that we're not seeing it, and of course I haven't been using nitrous for years on the same vehicle as it sounds like you may be doing or contemplating doing, so I really can't speak to that. What you might want to do is to talk directly to some of the catalytic converter manufacturers, also nitrous system manufacturers, & see what data they might have.

With regard to the use of power adders in general on these Modular motors, we don't have problems there as long as the spark plugs are installed properly. Heck, I run 17 PSI boost on our 2001 Lightning, which is making about 535-550 HP at the flywheel, and have never have a problem. I also check the plugs about every 2000 miles or so and change them frequently, about every 5000 miles or so, but only because we do so much testing & tuning on that vehicle. Just to give you an idea, not one single customer of ours who has had us install their spark plugs has ever had a plug launch or even loosen on them. It's all a matter of proper installation.

The spark plug problem is generally due to over-tightening of the plugs, which distorts the threads in these aluminum cylinder heads, and if that is done while the motor is very warm, that too can cause problems. The plugs can loosen over time when overtightened, and as the threads fail, finally launch the plug out of it's bore, usually causing catastrophic cylinder head damage requiring cylinder head replacement.

We change plugs when the motor is just a bit warm, not completely cold, and certainly not anywhere near normal operating temperature. We use a dab of anti-seize (and most "tuners" say not to do this, I strongly disagree) on the threads of the plug, then screw it into the bore. Once it is hand-snug, we then tighten the plug another 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn, and that's it.

There are good instructions for installing spark plugs in both cast iron and aluminum cylinder heads at the Denso web site (and we generally use Denso Iridium spark plugs), here is the URL: http://densoiridium.com/installationguide.htm

The "issue" with the SOHC modular motor cylinder heads is the small number of threads, generally about 4.5 threads. In fact, Ford changed those heads for the 2003 model year, all 2003 4.6 & 5.4 motors have cylinder heads with twice the number of threads for the spark plug bores. However, the previous reduced thread heads can be successfully used with power-adders, we have many, many customers doing it for years & years.

Thanks for your post & good luck!

 

no,no, that post came out not the way it was intended. By no means am I trying to compare, or devalue anything you have said. I also wasnt expecting you to beable to answer the sulfer+cat question, it was just thrown out there as something else for people to take into account when choosing a power adder. I gain a good bit of insite into the operations of these mod motors through things you have said on this website in verious post. I think you do a good job of pointing people in the right direction, with reasonings behind it aswell.

I do have a question for you though. With the new 3valve motor having a fly by wire throttle system will the new micro tuner for it beable to do away with the torque management. Because the way I can read it will be set up is that at the slightest hint of wheel spin the computer will back off the throttle alittle, which would make nice for the track but not for the guys feeling the need for spinning the hide when he wants to.

 

Hi Bottlefed,

>>>By no means am I trying to compare, or devalue anything you have said.<<<

I didn't take anything you said that way & never though you were. That's very kind of you to point out, but we're "cool," so please don't give it a thought!

With regard to the 3-valve 5.4, we'll just have to see what we're dealt once we can get some real R&D time on the vehicles, which won't happen until sometime after they start selling.

The '04 F-150 will have all new powertrain controls with numerous new systems, so we expect the 2004 F-150 to require a good bit of new R&D before Superchips will release an application for it. That won't happen for some months after the release of the vehicle, I'd say we'd be very lucky to release within 6 months of those vehicle's shipping. We've got a "new" motor with variable valve timing to R&D in addition to any throttle by wire issues (which don't automatically preclude the ability to tune, by the way, it's just another control system, that's all), new (to the F-150) powertrain controls using the Motorola PowerPC processor, new automatic tranny (the 5-speed, if it makes it) & many other new things to deal with when talking about the '04 F-150. It's very similar to what we were dealing with on the last all-new redesign of the F-150 for the 1997 model year, when the mod motors were first introduced to the F-150 and Ford made changes to the EEC-V PCM & many other things. It was, if memory serves, a good 6-8 months if not longer before Superchips had all that nailed for the 1997 model year.

I'd say it will be *well* into the 2004 F-150 model year before we have quality tuning available for it. We may get lucky & do it quicker, only time will tell, but the R&D won't even get started until probably sometime in September, after the vehicles are shipping in enough quantity to satisfy sales demands. The 2004 F-150 is going to be a very hot seller, if Ford keeps pricing in line. It's costing Ford $2000 more to build the 2004 F-150 over the 2003 models, and we just don't know what Ford is really going to do price-wise, they claim no significant increase and if that holds true, they'll sell every truck they can build.

It'll be interesting..........................