SuperChip kill 2k2 Stang
#2
12-26-2002, 08:48 PM
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#5
12-27-2002, 01:24 PM
#7
12-27-2002, 05:22 PM
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Hi McSierra,
I question the title of this thread as not only does that not make sense due to improper English (maybe a typo, etc.), but it also communicates a potentially nasty implication that is not appropriate. Heck, some people might even think it's Neal the HP Freak posting yet another Mustang "kill" with his hotrod F-150 in a fresh thread!!
(just kidding!)
The 4R70W transmissions can give an excellent service life even being pounded on hard in newer vehicles, but then sometimes you just get "a bad one." As we've seen posted a number of times here over the years, you can get a quick failure, sometimes in only 4000 miles or even less, and in bone-stock trim. It isn't the fault of a Superchip, or an intake kit, or a cat-back exhaust, those are relatively minor mods & power gains that aren't going to cause parts failures. There are *plenty* of supercharged Mustangs running stock automatics that have no problems for small power gains to be able to fail the unit.
In a low-mile failure, the tranny was going to fail anyway, even in bone-stock trim, it's just a matter of time in weak units, and this has been an issue on and off with the 4R70W's. They get significant variance in the quality of the raw parts coming in (much to the displeasure & chagrin of the Livonia transmission plant employees, who care deeply about the quality of their products), as well as variances in the size of some of the orifices in the valve body, which affects fluid volume flow.
As described *here*, this could be caused by any of a number of problems, transmission fluid condition and/or fluid level, or it could be a connection-related problem, either from the Superchip to the PCM or due to a bent or recessed pin on the wiring harness connection on the front end, or the wiring harness not being properly tightened, etc., or a combination of any of these or other factors.
We got a different description of the symptom over the phone today from the person that called us, it was the vehicle owner's father in law, who described a problem with a 2002 Mustang where it would operate perfectly except it would not go into 4th gear (Overdrive). Now this was *after* removal of the Superchip, by the way, so that may be why the symptoms are described differently, as they may have changed after the Superchip was removed. It upshifted twice properly, meaning it was getting up into 2nd and then into 3rd gear properly, but just wouldn't go into 4th gear (Overdrive). And in *that* kind of symptom, it sounds like it could be the classic 4R70W Overdrive band failure that has been happening in some of the 4R70W's for years & years, assuming that Overdrive wasn't just locked oput or a fuse blown, etc. It's a known weak point in some of them, a small number of 4R70W's have done this (failed the Overdrive band) in every single platform they've ever been installed in by Ford, from Thunderbirds to Lincoln Mark 8's to F-150's to Mustangs, Crown Vics, Mercury Grand Marquis, etc. This is generally due to not enough fluid volume flowing to the Overdrive band, so it can't grip the drum quickly enough and/or properly & thus the band burns up. That specific issue is remedied with a Transgo shift kit after appropriate repairs are made to the transmission.
The Superchip itself is not going to cause symptoms this as long as the code is properly matched, and in the event of a code mismtach, rarely will any vehicle even start, let alone run & make good power, so I doubt this is a code mismatch, but only time and proper diagnosis will tell. Even if the program were currupted due to some kind of static electricity discharge zapping the Superchip module, the symptoms would have instantly disappeared as soon as the Superchip was removed and the PCM cleared. That did not happen according to what was described to me via telephone, the symptom remained after removing the Superchip and clearing the PCM, which could potentially indicate a transmission failure of some kind that was going to happen anyway, unless it's just a simple wiring harness connection issue on the front of the PCM or a fluid level problem, etc.
Right now, after reading all of this, we don't know just what the actual symptoms really are, as what was described to me over the phone is different than what is described here. And this is an excellent example of what has no place here, the rules of F-150 Online require that vendors must provide Tech Support privately, not here on the boards. So whoever is involved will have to communicate with us thru proper channels (a phone call) for Tech Support, and not continue to post this here, as this will never be solved here, nor is it appropriate to be discussed here for any number of reasons.
Whoever I spoke to (your father-in-law, I think) said they were going to take the vehicle in for service to see just what is actually going on, and then will call us back afterwards, and then hopefully we can make some sense out of what's actually going on here. The individual I spoke to was a very nice fellow, and we spent a good bit of time going over all of this. He was concered that this might have been due to something done incorrectly during the installation process perhaps, etc. The way it was described to me over the phone (meaning how the vehicle was operating after the Superchip was removed & the PCM cleared), it sounded like an Overdrive band failure, but after reading the symptoms here, it may or may not be that at all, or it could be that *and* some installation-related issues when the Superchip was in that changed when the Superchip was removed, etc., there's no way to tell without inspecting the vehicle and knowing just exactly what the symptoms(s) really were/are. We'll just have to see what shakes out here.
Don't jump to conclusions that the Superchip "killed" your 2K2 Stang as your message title implies, as that isn't possible to say based on anything that has been communicated to us or what's been posted here. I seriously doubt that the Superchip itself had anything at all to do with your problems, the Superchip has never caused a transmission failure with any of our customers in the decade+ we've been doing this. Based on our years of experience, I think we're going to find that this was either an installation-related problem, or that your transmission was just weak to begin with and failed the Overdrive band, etc. This could be very simple, or it could be an actual transmission problem, that can't be determined yet, nor will that ever be determined *here*.
Please make sure you talk to your father-in-law about our discussion today, in detail, *before* taking it in for service, ok? And for future reference, please remember that anytime you think you may have a problem with anything purchased from us, please tell *us* by calling us directly, and right away, so we can help you as soon as possible. That's the only way we can help you, & thanks very much for your understanding on that, we greatly appreciate it!
Talk to you soon,
I question the title of this thread as not only does that not make sense due to improper English (maybe a typo, etc.), but it also communicates a potentially nasty implication that is not appropriate. Heck, some people might even think it's Neal the HP Freak posting yet another Mustang "kill" with his hotrod F-150 in a fresh thread!!
(just kidding!) The 4R70W transmissions can give an excellent service life even being pounded on hard in newer vehicles, but then sometimes you just get "a bad one." As we've seen posted a number of times here over the years, you can get a quick failure, sometimes in only 4000 miles or even less, and in bone-stock trim. It isn't the fault of a Superchip, or an intake kit, or a cat-back exhaust, those are relatively minor mods & power gains that aren't going to cause parts failures. There are *plenty* of supercharged Mustangs running stock automatics that have no problems for small power gains to be able to fail the unit.
In a low-mile failure, the tranny was going to fail anyway, even in bone-stock trim, it's just a matter of time in weak units, and this has been an issue on and off with the 4R70W's. They get significant variance in the quality of the raw parts coming in (much to the displeasure & chagrin of the Livonia transmission plant employees, who care deeply about the quality of their products), as well as variances in the size of some of the orifices in the valve body, which affects fluid volume flow.
As described *here*, this could be caused by any of a number of problems, transmission fluid condition and/or fluid level, or it could be a connection-related problem, either from the Superchip to the PCM or due to a bent or recessed pin on the wiring harness connection on the front end, or the wiring harness not being properly tightened, etc., or a combination of any of these or other factors.
We got a different description of the symptom over the phone today from the person that called us, it was the vehicle owner's father in law, who described a problem with a 2002 Mustang where it would operate perfectly except it would not go into 4th gear (Overdrive). Now this was *after* removal of the Superchip, by the way, so that may be why the symptoms are described differently, as they may have changed after the Superchip was removed. It upshifted twice properly, meaning it was getting up into 2nd and then into 3rd gear properly, but just wouldn't go into 4th gear (Overdrive). And in *that* kind of symptom, it sounds like it could be the classic 4R70W Overdrive band failure that has been happening in some of the 4R70W's for years & years, assuming that Overdrive wasn't just locked oput or a fuse blown, etc. It's a known weak point in some of them, a small number of 4R70W's have done this (failed the Overdrive band) in every single platform they've ever been installed in by Ford, from Thunderbirds to Lincoln Mark 8's to F-150's to Mustangs, Crown Vics, Mercury Grand Marquis, etc. This is generally due to not enough fluid volume flowing to the Overdrive band, so it can't grip the drum quickly enough and/or properly & thus the band burns up. That specific issue is remedied with a Transgo shift kit after appropriate repairs are made to the transmission.
The Superchip itself is not going to cause symptoms this as long as the code is properly matched, and in the event of a code mismtach, rarely will any vehicle even start, let alone run & make good power, so I doubt this is a code mismatch, but only time and proper diagnosis will tell. Even if the program were currupted due to some kind of static electricity discharge zapping the Superchip module, the symptoms would have instantly disappeared as soon as the Superchip was removed and the PCM cleared. That did not happen according to what was described to me via telephone, the symptom remained after removing the Superchip and clearing the PCM, which could potentially indicate a transmission failure of some kind that was going to happen anyway, unless it's just a simple wiring harness connection issue on the front of the PCM or a fluid level problem, etc.
Right now, after reading all of this, we don't know just what the actual symptoms really are, as what was described to me over the phone is different than what is described here. And this is an excellent example of what has no place here, the rules of F-150 Online require that vendors must provide Tech Support privately, not here on the boards. So whoever is involved will have to communicate with us thru proper channels (a phone call) for Tech Support, and not continue to post this here, as this will never be solved here, nor is it appropriate to be discussed here for any number of reasons.
Whoever I spoke to (your father-in-law, I think) said they were going to take the vehicle in for service to see just what is actually going on, and then will call us back afterwards, and then hopefully we can make some sense out of what's actually going on here. The individual I spoke to was a very nice fellow, and we spent a good bit of time going over all of this. He was concered that this might have been due to something done incorrectly during the installation process perhaps, etc. The way it was described to me over the phone (meaning how the vehicle was operating after the Superchip was removed & the PCM cleared), it sounded like an Overdrive band failure, but after reading the symptoms here, it may or may not be that at all, or it could be that *and* some installation-related issues when the Superchip was in that changed when the Superchip was removed, etc., there's no way to tell without inspecting the vehicle and knowing just exactly what the symptoms(s) really were/are. We'll just have to see what shakes out here.
Don't jump to conclusions that the Superchip "killed" your 2K2 Stang as your message title implies, as that isn't possible to say based on anything that has been communicated to us or what's been posted here. I seriously doubt that the Superchip itself had anything at all to do with your problems, the Superchip has never caused a transmission failure with any of our customers in the decade+ we've been doing this. Based on our years of experience, I think we're going to find that this was either an installation-related problem, or that your transmission was just weak to begin with and failed the Overdrive band, etc. This could be very simple, or it could be an actual transmission problem, that can't be determined yet, nor will that ever be determined *here*.
Please make sure you talk to your father-in-law about our discussion today, in detail, *before* taking it in for service, ok? And for future reference, please remember that anytime you think you may have a problem with anything purchased from us, please tell *us* by calling us directly, and right away, so we can help you as soon as possible. That's the only way we can help you, & thanks very much for your understanding on that, we greatly appreciate it!
Talk to you soon,