swirls in paint, need help with options
 

so my truck has always had swirl marks. nothing that catches a fingernail or anything like that just light swirls.

im trying to get most of them out without having to buy a porter cable and get serious. i have been using my vaper 6 inch buffer from advance auto and turtle wax rubbing compound, and i can get most of them out, it takes a while to do, but if i keep at it in one section it gets most of the swirls out.

my question is would i have better luck switching to rubbing compound? on the labels the polishing compound says for light to medium swirls and oxidization, and on the rubbing compound it says medium to heavy swirls and oxidization. the polishing compound is working for me, just very slowly. i was planning on doing this a section at a time, like washing the truck, then doing the roof and hood one day, and putting wax on after it, then next time i wash it do the front end and tailgate, and waxing that afterward, then eventually doing the sides.

i know this stuff is working, just very slowly because one time i got allot of scratches in a little 4 inch round area, and i used my buffer and the polishing compound and held it in that one spot over it for a good minute or two, and it took out all the scratches, and swirl marks. im just trying to find a way to work faster. i was going to get more pads, and the rubbing compound and try a section on the roof first of course.

i don't know how many rps the buffer is i can check later.
any advice is appreciated.

I would suggest stepping away from the turtle wax rubbing compound. Have a look at Ultimate Compound from Meguiars if the they are fairly heavy. You probably should start out by trying something like SwirlX from Meg's. Both are great OTC products.

The Buffer isn't really helping you out either, it doesn't really have the power to do any defect removal, it's more meant to apply and remove waxes/sealants. I would try the above products by hand first and see if you can achieve the results your looking for.

If you can post some pics, the pros on here can probably give you a more dialed in product and technique to try.

Lose that buffer and buy the right equipment. You need a DA with the right pads and products, and Turtle Wax is not on that short list.........

yeah i know its not a real buffer, but the swirls arent that bad to make me buy a porter cable. is there anything decent i can use thats not as expensive as a porter cable. i dont want to get into the world of high speeds just yet. using my buffer and polishing compound is getting me the results im okay with, so should i just try the meguiars stuff? the swirls only bug me when its in direct sunlight and i can see allot of them. if i can get 60 percent of them out id be a happy camper. its a truck after all.

i was thinking of using a scratch remover, but all that grit kinda bothers me.

is there anything decent chemical wise i can use with my buffer to get some sort of results?

I would skip the PC and grab a Griot's Garage V2 DA and some foam pads and knock out as quick as you can, Stay away from turtle wax, Go Megs UC followed by Megs 205 topped with Optimum Optiseal and it will be gorgeous and easy to maintain.

If you're hell bent on not spending the dough on a Porter Cable, try this first. I used Meguir's swirl remover, then Eagle One Nanowax. You can use the Meguir's NXT as well, same idea as the Nanowax. This made for a very nice but not totally swirl free finish, just really nice. BUT, I was tired of f'n around and got the PC 7424XP DA polisher. I was always fearful of burning the paint or just spreading around dirt etc. because I was a novice. Use it once and you won't regret it. I did with the m105 then m205 polishing compounds from Meguir's then Nanowax to seal the deal. In (bleepin) credible how nice the paint looks now, depth, gloss and durability. It is super easy to use and very forgiving. Watch a few how to's from the detailers cafe (name correct?) or youtube to get an idea of how it goes, and go try it. Try my first suggestion first but don't be surprised if you upgrade to paint correction. It really might take you a few more hours more doing paint correction than by hand anyways.

yeah id like to get the majority out with what i have. i will try the swirl x stuff first though.

and i am using nxt wax, that stuffs the bomb diggity.

id really like to try to see how well i can get it with my buffer first. if it starts to bug me ill get a PC

SwirlX works really wells and actually makes the metallic in your paint job pop...but like what pretty much everyone has said...you won't regret a DA

The problem with orbitals like yours is not the speed, but the lack of torque. unless you pick up a PC, or a Flex, by hand is going to be your best, and safest bet. As others have said, put down the Turtle wax, it is total junk.

There is really no short cut. Either buy the right tools, have a pro do it for you, or buy into spending 12 hours or so doing it by hand, a 12" square at a time.

How big an area are we talking. If it's anything bigger than a small isolated spot I think you may be putting in all that hard work for nothing. Buy a quality commercial unit and make it easy. Then you'll always have it as swirls eventually become a fact of life on a daily driver.

I've got a Griots Garage 6 which has a stronger motor than the Porter Cable and combined with the right pad and compound it makes the job so much easier. I've had good luck with Lake country orange 5" pads or Meguiars yellow soft buff pads for swirls and light scratches. For compounds I have in my arsenal Megs Ultimate Compound, Swirlx, Scratchx 2.0 and for ultra fine polishing Meguiars 205

If you're set on doing it by hand and want to keep it as simple as possible, then check out Meguiars Ultimate Compound. It can either be used by hand or machine and is very effective at getting rid of swirls and scratches, especially with a dual action polisher.

But like others have stated, you're not going to get anywhere near the results doing it by hand. A dual action polisher such as the Porter Cable 7424xp makes paint correct so much quicker and easier. If you're a big fan of keeping your truck looking nice and would like to maintain a flawless finish once you get rid of the swirls, a dual action polisher makes life so much easier.

:angel:

I see the DA mentioned. I have a pneumatic DA sander but is it the same as what you are talking about? Can you buy pads for the DA sander?
I assume ScratchX or Meguires UC can be bought at Oreilly's?

Give this kit a shot, you can get 10% off with the F150 code and at times they offer free shipping.

http://www.autogeek.net/poca74pofcop.html

No, a sander is not anything close to a DA polisher.

1. Wash and Clay Bar
2. Meg's Ultimate Compund
3. Meg's Scratch X
4. Meg's Swirl X
5. Meg's NXT 2.0 (let cure 24 hours before getting wet)
6. Meg's Pure Carnauba a few weeks later

The above combination made my '07 STX with Dark Blue Pearl look like a mirror. Your paint will look good with your 6" buffer but it will look outstanding with a DA Polisher.

My Meg's DA works really well with Ultimate Compound, Scratch X, Swirl X and NXT 2.0 Wax.

Ok....

buy denatured alcohol (hardware or paint store), it is oil free, wipe down the paint and it will remove all the old wax, polish and almost any contaminent.

Pick up a 6" orbital polisher (typically around $20) at any of the big chain part stores, and a foam pad (not wool or cotton).

Use 3M hand Glaze (aka swirl mark remover), they make one for light and dark colored paints and it is clear coat safe. Apply it to the pad, not the paint, and work an area about 2 feet square at a time, keep the orbital moving slowly but steady, in a straigh line fashion (as compared to a round direction) and make sure that you keep the pad well supplied with product.

Applying in cool temps really works best....then just wipe it off or if the buffer cam with a 100% cotton pad you can use that as well. You ma have to apply it a couple of times but it is very user friendly and works well especially with a little orbital.......and it won't damage the paint or your pocket book! If you don't have any clean 100% cotton rags around....check out the local fabric supply store....100% cotton felt is very inexpensive (about $6 a yard) and is excellent for removing any product residuals (wax, etc.) and the paint has an incredible shine with no swirl marks.

Just a point of information about Clay Bar

Ford/GM/Chrysler/MB/Porsche all have service directives that specifically refer to paint correction/contamination procedures and clay bar is not a referred procedure and specifically identified as a method which only removes the surface level paint contaminants and as such, the "root' of the contaminant remains continues to destroy the paint from underneath the surface layer of the paint.

Some use Mequire's clay bar and it is rated at 3500 grit (and was sensored last year by the FTC for it's advertising claims). There much better clay bar products out there rated at much finer grits- so if you are comfortable and believe your paint needs to be wet-sanded, and that is the only and safest way to correct the flaw/issue, then do so but remember, for 90% for all paint contamination issues there are products designed to relieve/remove/neutralize the contaminants without reducing the mil thickness of the clear coat

These procedures date back to 1990 and are still published in current oem paint maintenance publications/service manuals. If you would like a copy of the this info, PM me and I will send you the docs.


With

^^^^
:lurk: :D

Beech .. post up some pictures of a few of your details, and walk us through the procedure. I'd like to know how to go from this:


http://www.thedetailerscafe.com/smf/..._22861870.jpeg


To this:



http://www.thedetailerscafe.com/smf/...2_2291177.jpeg


Or from this:


http://gipraw.zftp.com/pics/esc1.jpg


to this:


http://gipraw.zftp.com/pics/esc3.jpg



Using a product designed to fill swirls, not remove them isn't the answer. Just because it has slight cleaning properties does not make it the right product to use, especially when recommended to correct defects you have never seen.

The whole idea here is to CORRECT the problem, not cover it up.

Using the wrong tools, the wrong products, the wrong procedures and the wrong advice is not the recommended recipe to follow for success.



But you probably know that, and just felt the need to troll again. Anyone can yap away on an internet forum. Try proving you know what you are talking about by posting some pics of your work, because what you type comes across like you know nothing.

:beers:

No comment on the above quote. I will continue to use my OTC Meg's products as directed on the back of the product. I will use Meg's Pro Poducts if I need something a little stronger.

Great job Gipraw...

Excellent advice - 20 years ago. You gotta get with the program and use the newer technology for the newer paint systems.

If the old school products and methods work for you, fine. However, I wouldn't let a detailer that's stuck in the old school world touch my vehicle.

Wanted: Simple solution to swirl marks
 

I'm with fivespeed, I want a simple solution to getting out my self-inflicted swirl marks. Women, children and men with weak constitutions may want to avert your eyes, but I used a brush to wash my truck and it looked like I washed with with 80 grit sandpaper.
What I want to know is: Can I use the SwirlX by hand? If so, what do I "need" to get the job done? Is there a cheap power drill attachment or something that would work, or is that a waste of time?

You simply did what many people do to wash their vehicles. Most folks have no idea how destructive a brush can be in the longer term though.

As for your particular situation, without pictures, it's hard to say. (Even with pics, it's hard over the internet.) Generally speaking, you can remove some of the swirls by hand, but you'll be one tired puppy and the results will be kind of spotty at best.

The only way to truly correct the surface is with a machine and the correct pads, products and patience. A good detailer (like Gipraw) could have you happy as a clam in short order. A bad detailer will just make a bad situation worse. Got any good detailers in your area?

2stroked is correct: you'll accomplish basically nothing without a machine. Get a D/A buffer (I recommend the Griots), proper pads (foam or the new microfiber ones from Meguiars), and proper compounds. From there, it's a process: claybar; compounding; polishing; protecting. I use the claybar; Megs #105 or Ultimate Compound; Megs #205 or Megs Ultimate Polish; Blackfire Wet Diamond topped by Wet Glaze 2.0.

Jim

so much for "reading"- fundamentals ya know.....Dupont, SW are still the suppliers to the OE's and specific "Paint Correction & Maintenance Procedures"......

It's a real shame the "Engineers & Scientists" at these company's aren't as knowledgable as you about their products.......not a one recommends (as of publications dated 2012) for using "Clay bar" to correct any paint issue including contamination- sorry guys, the laws of physics & chemistry apply here...unless you live in "sticker-land" where TBI spacers produce all sorts of HP & PR materials "Rule"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

woodman308 - if you are interested in tackling the issue yourself, do a lot of reading then come get any questions you need to have answered. Be careful who you pay attention to in any forum like this. Some of the people in here know exactly what they are talking about .. and others have earned the nickname "Captain Cut & Paste".

How does it feel to be the least credible regular poster in every detailing forum you frequent?

Actually had to take you off of ignore just to see what nugget of wisdom you dropped in this zombie thread.

Question beech .. when you make fun of other people posting PR materials are you worried about getting struck by lightening?

Yeah, beechkid is an idiot.

Jim

If you really want to learn about the aspects of detailing, go to a site like The Detailer's Cafe.

http://www.thedetailerscafe.com/

Thank you very much for your contribution to the site.

Of course not.
He has made up FTC cases and imaginary people that looked at his paint, and software that demonstrated beyond doubt on his side.:devil:

Least credible regular poster in every detailing forum you frequent

Think we can petition to have this title assigned under his name here ?:lol:

I just kind of do this stuff for myself and help to keep up my families 5 cars (three black at that). I have a Porter Cable 7424XP DA, 4 orange pads, 6 white pads, 2 blue pads, and 2 red pads. All pads are Lake Country.

For deep scratches (cats walking around, shopping cart from walmart rub, rocks, ect) I use the orange pads with Megs M105 to remove them on a spot basis. If the swirls are horrible I may do the entire vehicle with this to get them mostly out. I run the DA on the high setting with moderate pressure and move slowly in alternating patterns doing a 2' x 2' area at a time. You will want to do sections like this with all the compounds/ polishes and remove the residue of each section after it is done.

I follow this with the white pads and Megs M205 using the DA on 75% power applying less pressure and moving at a slightly higher speed and do the entire vehicle to get a good shine and remove almost all of the swirls and damage from the abrasion the previous compound created.

On our black vehicles I follow this with the blue pads and Megs Deep Crystal Polish on about 40% power on the DA moving at a moderately faster speed than before, all in alternating patterns.

Finally, I seal it with the red pads and Megs NXT 2.0 at about 30-40% power on the DA doing a panel at a time. Let it cure then hand remove using high quality microfibers.

This method has all of our vehicles in top shape IMO. Not as good as some of the professional detailers around here, but plenty to satisfy my needs/ wants and keep them in good shape.

You will want to do a little research on knowing when the compound/ polish is done and you should move to the next section. It is really a learning curve type of deal, but from what I used to do to what I do now is truly a much better deal. You will NOT regret the 2-300 dollar investment. It's something you will always have and the DA takes alot of the work out of it.

Here is a write up a fellow member Mblouir did awhile back that helped me get the basics down and basically reiterates much of what i've wrote here. I mainly detailed what I use and bought to help take some of the guesswork out of this for you and others who have absolutely no idea of what a beginner might need.

Link

Hope this helps! :thumbsup:

Haven't tried it yet (waiting for a discount/free shipping), but the new Megs M101 looks to be a replacement for M105 (which is a PITA to use). M101 is really getting raves.

Jim

Hmm, I haven't heard of that! Only issue i've ever had with the 105 was it getting dry. Quick spray of quick detailer on the pad solved it. This 101 may be worth looking into though!

:roflol:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/me...r-bar-1997.jpg
considering you are unlicensed, not bonded, no insurance, but claim to be a detailing expert....since pics speak louder than words and the newest docs (published 2013) are all in written form referencing other publications, here are the pics for your single digit reading comprehension capabilities.

That is not published in 2013, the fax date on it is 23-SEP-2008...
- Only missed it by 4.5 years, and it would be pic, not pics. Nothing plural about a single picture.

Now, are you going to claim you are a licensed, bonded and insured detailer ?
- Didn't know Fire Service covered detailing in CA.

BTW : Got that FTC case number yet ?
- I'm still waiting for it, only been about a year.

I'm your huckleberry.

I am a bonded, insured professional with 34+ years experience as a professional detailer that quit counting numbers the day I did my 10,000th car.

You are full of crap and have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to detailing vehicles.

Anyone that follows your advice does so at their own risk and needs to have their head examined.




Sometimes I wonder why I even bother pointing out how wrong you are. I have made a lot of money over the years correcting screw ups for people after they follow bad advice from people like you.


Pictures can speak louder than words. We have been waiting 5+ years on this forum for you to post pictures documenting your awesome detailing technique.
It will never happen because you can't do it.

You can't do by hand what you can accomplish with a good DA machine

Now here's a new entry from Harbor Freight...http://www.harborfreight.com/6-varia...her-69924.html
I have not purchased one. I have not used one. Some folks seem to like it. Should be OK for a weekend warrior.

My current machine inventory contains a Flex PE 14-2 rotary, Rupes LHR 21E Bigfoot, Groit's Garage 6" DA and a PC 7424xp etc.

Attachment 14778

That DA from HF appears to be a Chinese copy of a PC 7424. The reviews look pretty decent. I don't think I'd get one if I were a pro detailer but as you said, it looks very cost-effective for a weekend warrior.

I agree with "Blue07STX " , i think his answer is best for the required question. I also want to know about this procedure and here this discussion helped me allot.
Our Website

Didn't want to quote the whole post but thanks Brent for linking that stuff at the other forums, those videos were great. My wife's car needs some attention. Your post with the other linked make a great compliment.

Except for the industry documents I have published numerous times 7 you just discount as......
oh, those are old (of course you said they were PR documents when they were posted in the initial year of publication...
then when I posted the newest, you again claimed they were bogus..........

oh, the wanna-be detailing I have a "sign" experts.............
with no trophies..............

Again, that was not published in 2013, the fax date on it is 23-SEP-2008.

Want to be detailers, is that someone that works in Fire Service ?
- BTW : might want to check what he does for a living....

And trophies, is this back to the member that does not exist, or more BS that is jsut words on a forum from you ?

BTW : Got that FTC case number yet ?
- It has been 14 or 15 months now.